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Old 06-24-2012, 11:47 AM
MickaŽl Raybaud-Roig
 
Default Bug#678815: ITP: wmfs -- Window Manager From Scratch

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: "MickaŽl Raybaud-Roig" <raybaudroigm@gmail.com>

* Package name : wmfs
Version : 2~beta201206
Upstream Author : Martin Duquesnoy <xorg62@gmail.com>
* URL : http://wmfs.info
* License : BSD
Programming Lang: C
Description : Window Manager From Scratch



ę WMFS2 is a lightweight and highly configurable tiling window manager for
X written in C. wmfs2 is a free software distributed under the BSD
license. it can be drive from keyboard or mouse and it's configuration
stands in one text file easily understandable Ľ



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Old 06-24-2012, 03:22 PM
Thomas Koch
 
Default Bug#678815: ITP: wmfs -- Window Manager From Scratch

MickaŽl Raybaud-Roig:
> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> Owner: "MickaŽl Raybaud-Roig" <raybaudroigm@gmail.com>
>
> * Package name : wmfs
> Version : 2~beta201206
> Upstream Author : Martin Duquesnoy <xorg62@gmail.com>
> * URL : http://wmfs.info
> * License : BSD
> Programming Lang: C
> Description : Window Manager From Scratch
>
>
>
> ę WMFS2 is a lightweight and highly configurable tiling window manager for
> X written in C. wmfs2 is a free software distributed under the BSD
> license. it can be drive from keyboard or mouse and it's configuration
> stands in one text file easily understandable Ľ

Hi,

I shortened the list to only include one line for each window manager already
in Debian:

axi-cache --all search x11::window-manager
100% 9wm - emulation of the Plan 9 window manager 8-1/2
100% aewm - minimalist window manager for X11
100% aewm++ - minimal window manager written in C++
100% afterstep - window manager with the NEXTSTEP look and feel
100% blackbox - Window manager for X
100% bluetile - full-featured tiling for the GNOME desktop environment
100% dwm - dynamic window manager
100% evilwm - a minimalist window manager for X11
100% fluxbox - Highly configurable and low resource X11 Window manager
100% flwm - Fast Light Window Manager
100% fvwm - F(?) Virtual Window Manager
100% i3-wm - improved dynamic tiling window manager
100% icewm - wonderful Win95-OS/2-Motif-like window manager
100% jwm - very small lightweight pure X11 window manager with tray and menus
100% kde-window-manager - K window manager (KWin)
100% larswm - Lars Window Manager with tiled windows
100% lwm - lightweight window manager
100% matchbox-window-manager - window manager for resource-limited systems
100% metacity - lightweight GTK+ window manager
100% miwm - minimalist window manager with virtual workspaces
100% mutter - lightweight GTK+ window manager
100% openbox - standards compliant, fast, light-weight, extensible window
manager
100% oroborus - A lightweight themeable windowmanager for X
100% pekwm - very light window manager
100% ratpoison - keyboard-only window manager
100% sapphire - A minimal but configurable X11R6 window manager
100% stumpwm - tiling, keyboard driven Common Lisp window manager
100% tinywm - tiny window manager
100% twm - Tab window manager
100% vtwm - Virtual Tab Window Manager
100% w9wm - enhanced window manager based on 9wm
100% windowlab - small and simple Amiga-like window manager
100% wm2 - small, unconfigurable window manager
100% wmaker - NeXTSTEP-like window manager for X
100% wmii - lightweight tabbed and tiled X11 window manager, version 3
100% xfwm4 - window manager of the Xfce project
100% xmonad - Lightweight X11 window manager written in Haskell
100% e17 - Enlightenment DR17 Window Manager
100% olvwm - OpenLook virtual window manager
100% olwm - Open Look Window Manager
100% herbstluftwm - manual tiling window manager for X11

Thomas Koch, http://www.koch.ro


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Old 06-24-2012, 04:02 PM
MickaŽl Raybaud-Roig
 
Default Bug#678815: ITP: wmfs -- Window Manager From Scratch

Thomas Koch <thomas@koch.ro> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I shortened the list to only include one line for each window manager already
> in Debian:
>
> axi-cache --all search x11::window-manager
> 100% 9wm - emulation of the Plan 9 window manager 8-1/2
> 100% aewm - minimalist window manager for X11
> 100% aewm++ - minimal window manager written in C++
> 100% afterstep - window manager with the NEXTSTEP look and feel
> 100% blackbox - Window manager for X
> 100% bluetile - full-featured tiling for the GNOME desktop environment
> 100% dwm - dynamic window manager
> 100% evilwm - a minimalist window manager for X11
> 100% fluxbox - Highly configurable and low resource X11 Window manager
> 100% flwm - Fast Light Window Manager
> 100% fvwm - F(?) Virtual Window Manager
> 100% i3-wm - improved dynamic tiling window manager
> 100% icewm - wonderful Win95-OS/2-Motif-like window manager
> 100% jwm - very small lightweight pure X11 window manager with tray and menus
> 100% kde-window-manager - K window manager (KWin)
> 100% larswm - Lars Window Manager with tiled windows
> 100% lwm - lightweight window manager
> 100% matchbox-window-manager - window manager for resource-limited systems
> 100% metacity - lightweight GTK+ window manager
> 100% miwm - minimalist window manager with virtual workspaces
> 100% mutter - lightweight GTK+ window manager
> 100% openbox - standards compliant, fast, light-weight, extensible window
> manager
> 100% oroborus - A lightweight themeable windowmanager for X
> 100% pekwm - very light window manager
> 100% ratpoison - keyboard-only window manager
> 100% sapphire - A minimal but configurable X11R6 window manager
> 100% stumpwm - tiling, keyboard driven Common Lisp window manager
> 100% tinywm - tiny window manager
> 100% twm - Tab window manager
> 100% vtwm - Virtual Tab Window Manager
> 100% w9wm - enhanced window manager based on 9wm
> 100% windowlab - small and simple Amiga-like window manager
> 100% wm2 - small, unconfigurable window manager
> 100% wmaker - NeXTSTEP-like window manager for X
> 100% wmii - lightweight tabbed and tiled X11 window manager, version 3
> 100% xfwm4 - window manager of the Xfce project
> 100% xmonad - Lightweight X11 window manager written in Haskell
> 100% e17 - Enlightenment DR17 Window Manager
> 100% olvwm - OpenLook virtual window manager
> 100% olwm - Open Look Window Manager
> 100% herbstluftwm - manual tiling window manager for X11
>
> Thomas Koch, http://www.koch.ro

Hi,

You're right, there are already a lot of X11 window managers in Debian ...

But WMFS is not already in the list and it works fine, that's why I want to package it :-)

PS: i've uploaded a package here: http://mentors.debian.net/package/wmfs

--
MickaŽl Raybaud-Roig <raybaudroigm@gmail.com>
 
Old 06-24-2012, 05:15 PM
Neil Williams
 
Default Bug#678815: ITP: wmfs -- Window Manager From Scratch

On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 18:02:56 +0200
MickaŽl Raybaud-Roig <raybaudroigm@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thomas Koch <thomas@koch.ro> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I shortened the list to only include one line for each window manager already
> > in Debian:
> >
> > axi-cache --all search x11::window-manager
> > 100% 9wm - emulation of the Plan 9 window manager 8-1/2
> > 100% aewm - minimalist window manager for X11
> > 100% aewm++ - minimal window manager written in C++
> > 100% afterstep - window manager with the NEXTSTEP look and feel
> > 100% blackbox - Window manager for X
> > 100% bluetile - full-featured tiling for the GNOME desktop environment
> > 100% dwm - dynamic window manager
> > 100% evilwm - a minimalist window manager for X11
> > 100% fluxbox - Highly configurable and low resource X11 Window manager
> > 100% flwm - Fast Light Window Manager
> > 100% fvwm - F(?) Virtual Window Manager
> > 100% i3-wm - improved dynamic tiling window manager
> > 100% icewm - wonderful Win95-OS/2-Motif-like window manager
> > 100% jwm - very small lightweight pure X11 window manager with tray and menus
> > 100% kde-window-manager - K window manager (KWin)
> > 100% larswm - Lars Window Manager with tiled windows
> > 100% lwm - lightweight window manager
> > 100% matchbox-window-manager - window manager for resource-limited systems
> > 100% metacity - lightweight GTK+ window manager
> > 100% miwm - minimalist window manager with virtual workspaces
> > 100% mutter - lightweight GTK+ window manager
> > 100% openbox - standards compliant, fast, light-weight, extensible window
> > manager
> > 100% oroborus - A lightweight themeable windowmanager for X
> > 100% pekwm - very light window manager
> > 100% ratpoison - keyboard-only window manager
> > 100% sapphire - A minimal but configurable X11R6 window manager
> > 100% stumpwm - tiling, keyboard driven Common Lisp window manager
> > 100% tinywm - tiny window manager
> > 100% twm - Tab window manager
> > 100% vtwm - Virtual Tab Window Manager
> > 100% w9wm - enhanced window manager based on 9wm
> > 100% windowlab - small and simple Amiga-like window manager
> > 100% wm2 - small, unconfigurable window manager
> > 100% wmaker - NeXTSTEP-like window manager for X
> > 100% wmii - lightweight tabbed and tiled X11 window manager, version 3
> > 100% xfwm4 - window manager of the Xfce project
> > 100% xmonad - Lightweight X11 window manager written in Haskell
> > 100% e17 - Enlightenment DR17 Window Manager
> > 100% olvwm - OpenLook virtual window manager
> > 100% olwm - Open Look Window Manager
> > 100% herbstluftwm - manual tiling window manager for X11
>
> You're right, there are already a lot of X11 window managers in Debian ...
>
> But WMFS is not already in the list and it works fine, that's why I want to package it :-)

That is no reason for it to be in Debian.

Debian is not a dumping ground for every piece of free software just
because it "works fine".

Do the hard work of objectively identifying *all* of the pros and cons
of *all* the existing equivalents inside Debian already, compare those
with the pros and cons of yours and if there's any time left before
the heat death of the universe, maybe it can be considered.

> PS: i've uploaded a package here: http://mentors.debian.net/package/wmfs

That is no reason for it to be uploaded either.

There is no good reason for any new window managers in Debian. There
are good reasons to look at removing at least 10% of the ones which are
in Debian.

Doing that comparative analysis would be a good start for identifying
which can be removed - now *that* would be doing something useful for
Debian. This bug is *not* useful to anyone. Please close it and find an
RC bug to close instead.

--


Neil Williams
=============
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/
 
Old 06-24-2012, 05:31 PM
Arno TŲll
 
Default Bug#678815: ITP: wmfs -- Window Manager From Scratch

On 24.06.2012 19:15, Neil Williams wrote:
> This bug is *not* useful to anyone. Please close it and find an
> RC bug to close instead.

I'm pretty sure this could be expressed in another tone. Especially
since we welcome everyone (you know) and we have _no_ written rule what
belongs into Debian and what not, and nobody who decides on that beyond
legal issues.

How would MickaŽl know, then?


--
with kind regards,
Arno TŲll
IRC: daemonkeeper on Freenode/OFTC
GnuPG Key-ID: 0x9D80F36D
 
Old 06-24-2012, 06:34 PM
Philip Ashmore
 
Default Bug#678815: ITP: wmfs -- Window Manager From Scratch

On 24/06/12 18:15, Neil Williams wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 18:02:56 +0200
MickaŽl Raybaud-Roig<raybaudroigm@gmail.com> wrote:


Thomas Koch<thomas@koch.ro> wrote:

Hi,

I shortened the list to only include one line for each window manager already
in Debian:

axi-cache --all search x11::window-manager
100% 9wm - emulation of the Plan 9 window manager 8-1/2
100% aewm - minimalist window manager for X11
100% aewm++ - minimal window manager written in C++
100% afterstep - window manager with the NEXTSTEP look and feel
100% blackbox - Window manager for X
100% bluetile - full-featured tiling for the GNOME desktop environment
100% dwm - dynamic window manager
100% evilwm - a minimalist window manager for X11
100% fluxbox - Highly configurable and low resource X11 Window manager
100% flwm - Fast Light Window Manager
100% fvwm - F(?) Virtual Window Manager
100% i3-wm - improved dynamic tiling window manager
100% icewm - wonderful Win95-OS/2-Motif-like window manager
100% jwm - very small lightweight pure X11 window manager with tray and menus
100% kde-window-manager - K window manager (KWin)
100% larswm - Lars Window Manager with tiled windows
100% lwm - lightweight window manager
100% matchbox-window-manager - window manager for resource-limited systems
100% metacity - lightweight GTK+ window manager
100% miwm - minimalist window manager with virtual workspaces
100% mutter - lightweight GTK+ window manager
100% openbox - standards compliant, fast, light-weight, extensible window
manager
100% oroborus - A lightweight themeable windowmanager for X
100% pekwm - very light window manager
100% ratpoison - keyboard-only window manager
100% sapphire - A minimal but configurable X11R6 window manager
100% stumpwm - tiling, keyboard driven Common Lisp window manager
100% tinywm - tiny window manager
100% twm - Tab window manager
100% vtwm - Virtual Tab Window Manager
100% w9wm - enhanced window manager based on 9wm
100% windowlab - small and simple Amiga-like window manager
100% wm2 - small, unconfigurable window manager
100% wmaker - NeXTSTEP-like window manager for X
100% wmii - lightweight tabbed and tiled X11 window manager, version 3
100% xfwm4 - window manager of the Xfce project
100% xmonad - Lightweight X11 window manager written in Haskell
100% e17 - Enlightenment DR17 Window Manager
100% olvwm - OpenLook virtual window manager
100% olwm - Open Look Window Manager
100% herbstluftwm - manual tiling window manager for X11


You're right, there are already a lot of X11 window managers in Debian ...

But WMFS is not already in the list and it works fine, that's why I want to package it :-)


That is no reason for it to be in Debian.

Debian is not a dumping ground for every piece of free software just
because it "works fine".

Do the hard work of objectively identifying *all* of the pros and cons
of *all* the existing equivalents inside Debian already, compare those
with the pros and cons of yours and if there's any time left before
the heat death of the universe, maybe it can be considered.


PS: i've uploaded a package here: http://mentors.debian.net/package/wmfs


That is no reason for it to be uploaded either.

There is no good reason for any new window managers in Debian. There
are good reasons to look at removing at least 10% of the ones which are
in Debian.

Doing that comparative analysis would be a good start for identifying
which can be removed - now *that* would be doing something useful for
Debian. This bug is *not* useful to anyone. Please close it and find an
RC bug to close instead.
I didn't know you could do that with axi-cache - thanks. I'm always on
the lookout for a better window manager - it's a matter of taste.


Bug#678854: Acknowledgement (icewm won't start)

Philip


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Old 06-24-2012, 07:21 PM
Vincent Bernat
 
Default Bug#678815: ITP: wmfs -- Window Manager From Scratch

‚̶ 24 juin 2012 19:15 CEST, Neil Williams <codehelp@debian.org>¬*:

>> > I shortened the list to only include one line for each window manager already
>> > in Debian:
[...]

I think the list is incomplete. For example, awesome is not in it but is
properly tagged.

>> You're right, there are already a lot of X11 window managers in Debian ...
>>
>> But WMFS is not already in the list and it works fine, that's why I want to package it :-)
>
> That is no reason for it to be in Debian.
>
> Debian is not a dumping ground for every piece of free software just
> because it "works fine".

A window manager is something highly personal (like an editor). You put
a lot of effort to configure it and to get used to it. If Debian didn't
had my favorite window manager, I would be quite unhappy to have to
learn one which was here before. Plus, I would need to rewamp my whole
configuration.
--
printk("??? No FDIV bug? Lucky you...
");
2.2.16 /usr/src/linux/include/asm-i386/bugs.h
 
Old 06-25-2012, 05:04 AM
Miles Bader
 
Default Bug#678815: ITP: wmfs -- Window Manager From Scratch

Arno TŲll <arno@debian.org> writes:
> On 24.06.2012 19:15, Neil Williams wrote:
>> This bug is *not* useful to anyone. Please close it and find an
>> RC bug to close instead.
>
> I'm pretty sure this could be expressed in another tone. Especially
> since we welcome everyone (you know) and we have _no_ written rule
> what belongs into Debian and what not, and nobody who decides on
> that beyond legal issues.

OTOH, drama-queen whining about new packages is absolutely _classic_
Debian...

-miles

--
It wasn't the Exxon Valdez captain's driving that caused the Alaskan oil spill.
It was yours. [Greenpeace advertisement, New York Times, 25 February 1990]


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Old 06-25-2012, 08:02 AM
Serge
 
Default Bug#678815: ITP: wmfs -- Window Manager From Scratch

2012/6/24 Thomas Koch wrote:

>> Package: wnpp
>> Severity: wishlist
>> Owner: "Micka√ęl Raybaud-Roig" <raybaudroigm@gmail.com>
>>
>> * Package name : wmfs
>> Version : 2~beta201206
>> Upstream Author : Martin Duquesnoy <xorg62@gmail.com>
>> * URL : http://wmfs.info
>> * License : BSD
>> Programming Lang: C
>> Description : Window Manager From Scratch
>>
>> ¬ę WMFS2 is a lightweight and highly configurable tiling window manager
>> for X written in C. wmfs2 is a free software distributed under the BSD
>> license. it can be drive from keyboard or mouse and it's configuration
>> stands in one text file easily understandable ¬Ľ

Users reading such description can be confused how is it different from
other existing WMs. So let's put some more details in this description:
> Its features include:
> * extendible application launcher with autocompletion (prompt).
> * built-in system tray.
> * Xinerama multi-head support.
> * extended window manager hints (EWMH) compliance.
> * editable rules for tags/clients.
> * complete mouse support.
> * on-the-fly configuration reloading.
> * dynamic tag creation/deletion.
> * statusbar with support for progressbar, color, images and status pipes.
> * manual layout: you can create/arrange layouts as you want/need.
> * tab, move and resize clients with direction.
> * themes support for statusbar and clients.
> * ‚ÄĚ@include‚ÄĚ support split configuration file.

At least that "statusbar" feature worth to be mentioned, since it makes
this WM unique. "EWMH", "themes" and "built-in system tray" looks also
important to me.

As a user I would also like to know:
* what's its focus model: focus-follows-mouse, click-to-focus, etc?
* does it have a GUI configuration?
* does it support workspaces?
* does it allow to move windows with mouse?
* does it support urgency hints (WM_HINTS, NET_WM_STATE_DEMANDS_ATTENTION)?
* is it just tiling? what about stacking mode or floating windows?
* is it utf8/unicode friendly? works for window titles in french or korean?
* is it translated to other languages?
* freetype/Xft or X core fonts?
* shape extension? round windows? (e.g. `xeyes`)
* how much RAM it takes?
* is it low-dependency (GTK/Qt/Tk/etc.)?

As a start point: what are its differences from i3-wm, awesome or wmii?

> I shortened the list to only include one line for each window manager
> already in Debian:
> [...]

Among those 41 WMs only 9 are tiling WMs. And just a few of those tiling
WMs are usable out-of-box without heavy configuring and long documentation
reading.

PS: IMHO, there's nothing bad in having several similar programs in
repository, as long as someone wants to maintain them. It gives additional
flexibility for users. I.e. if some of them die upstream or dropped by the
maintainer users would be able to use another one.

--
Just trying to help,
Serge


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Old 06-25-2012, 09:38 AM
MickaŽl Raybaud-Roig
 
Default Bug#678815: ITP: wmfs -- Window Manager From Scratch

Hello,

First, thank to everyone for having responded.

I've read the list of window managers in Thomas Koch's email, and, as
said Serge, there are only a few tiling window managers in this list:


- Awesome requires programming skills
- Bluetile is for GNOME and there is no taskbar and no systray
- dwm hasno configuration file
- fvwm is very hard to setup
- herbstluftwm has no window decoration, no launcher, no taskbar and no systray
- i3-wm has a different behavior ("tree data structure")
- larswm seems very good, but there is no launcher, no widgets in the
taskbar and no window decoration
- matchbox seems to be for embedded systems
- ratpoison has no window decoration and no launcher
- xmonad has no window decoration and no launcher

I'm not saying that WMFS is better than those window manager or that
WMFS is perfect, but that WMFS offer another user experience than the
window managers already in the Debian archive.

As someone said in the thread, i forgotten to describe all the
caracteristics of WMFS.

So WMFS has the following features:

- it's lightwieght
- it's easily configurable
- it's not ugly
- there is are parametrable launcher (kind of prompts)
- there is a systray
- it supports Xinerama (for multiple displays)
- it's EWMH-compliant
- it supports rules
- you can use the mouse for almost everything
- you can reload the configuration on-the-fly
- it can dynamically create/delete tags
- you can add what you want in the taskbar/titlebars: progressbars,
graphs, buttons, colors, images ...
- the layout is manual
- you can tab several clients in one window
- it supports themes
- you can use includes to split the configuration
- you can control it remotely

Q: what's its focus model: focus-follows-mouse, click-to-focus, etc?
A: Both, you can select the one you want with the `focus` option in
the config file

Q: does it have a GUI configuration?
A: GVim ?

Q: does it support workspaces?
A: Yes, but that's called "tags"

Q: does it allow to move windows with mouse?
A: Yes, you can move, resize, tab, change tag and close with the mouse

Q: does it support urgency hints (WM_HINTS, NET_WM_STATE_DEMANDS_ATTENTION)?
A: Yes, it highlights the clients that demands attention with a color
of the theme

Q: is it just tiling? what about stacking mode or floating windows?
A: No, there is also a floating mode. Dialogs are in floating mode by default.

Q: is it utf8/unicode friendly? works for window titles in french or korean?
A: Good question, i will try that as soon as possible ...

Q: is it translated to other languages?
A: There is a French and a Spanish documentation on the wiki, but WMFS
just manage windows and draw titlebars/taskbars, so it doesn't speaks
english more than another language...

Q: freetype/Xft or X core fonts?
A: It supports freetype fonts

Q: shape extension? round windows? (e.g. `xeyes`)
A: I admit i haven't tryed...

Q: how much RAM it takes?
A: I haven't measured but its a lightweight program.

Q: is it low-dependency (GTK/Qt/Tk/etc.)?
A: It only depends of the Xlib, Xinerama and Imlib2

There is a wiki with more informations here:

https://github.com/xorg62/wmfs/wiki

The wiki also contains explainations about the configuration and
configuration examples:

https://github.com/xorg62/wmfs/wiki/Configuration-wmfsrc
https://github.com/xorg62/wmfs/wiki/Users-config
https://github.com/xorg62/wmfs/wiki/bonus

Have a nice day

--
MickaŽl Raybaud-Roig <raybaudroigm@gmail.com>


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