Please do not CC me, I am on the list.

On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 12:02:03AM +1000, Russell Coker wrote:
> One thing I've idly considered is running an IRC server at LUG meetings to
> coordinate questions for the speaker. I'm not sure how well that would work,
> but as I can run my own IRC server I have the option of trying it out.
> Google+ over a slow 3G connection probably wouldn't work.

I've no idea whether it would work or not, but this is getting off the point.

> I've found Google+ confusing and unproductive. I played with it for a while
> but didn't discover anything useful apart from a news feed that was a bit like
> twitter but with an allowance of more than 140 characters.

Fair enough - but let's not lob hand grenades at people who might find it
useful. Let them get on with it if they want to.


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On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 03:10:11PM +0100, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 03:58:12PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> > While some people understandably do not like to use proprietary online
> > services managed by third parties, there is no consensus that using them
> > for Debian purposes is inappropriate.
>
> I believe there is a consensus that having the project recommend their
> use, or having them used commonly, is inappropriate. I don't think this
> is written down in any of our normative documents, though.

I must have missed the post where someone suggested the project recommends
a non-free service. I only saw the ones where a bunch of people considered
using one themselves.


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+++ Bernd Zeimetz [2012-06-21 15:17 +0200]:
> On 06/21/2012 02:55 PM, Russell Coker wrote:
> > On Thu, 21 Jun 2012, Bernd Zeimetz <bernd@bzed.de> wrote:

> It is *easy* to use. It works out of the box.

Not if you only have one name. Google+ won't let me sign up, despite
emphasising the importance of using your real name _and_ having a
special 'unusualy names checking service'. I still got told to piss
off.

I don't get that sort of aggro from IRC servers.

But yes if it works for you it's one of many possible communication
channels.

Wookey
--
Principal hats: Linaro, Emdebian, Wookware, Balloonboard, ARM
http://wookware.org/


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md@Linux.IT (Marco d'Itri) writes:
> On Jun 21, Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi> wrote:

>>> While some people understandably do not like to use proprietary online
>>> services managed by third parties, there is no consensus that using them
>>> for Debian purposes is inappropriate.

>> I believe there is a consensus that having the project recommend their
>> use, or having them used commonly, is inappropriate. I don't think this

> I believe that this thread shows that this is not correct.

I don't. I believe this thread shows that a small number of vocal people
don't agree. That number is much smaller than the total number of people
working on Debian, and as this topic has come up many times before, a
bunch of us who have had the conversation too many times and don't care to
have it again are (or, I guess for me, were) sitting it out.

I don't think this thread says anything meaningful about that consensus
one way or the other.

--
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>


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On 06/21/2012 10:53 AM, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 6:50 AM, Philip Ashmore wrote:
>
>
>> The thought of setting up personal (or even Debian-wide) Google+ servers
>> never occurred to me.
>>
> I think you might have missed the point. Google+ is a proprietary SaaS
> used for selling your eyeballs to advertisers. It is unlikely that
> Google will ever let it be installed on other servers, let alone
> release the source code under a free license. Debian should avoid
> using such SaaS offerings and promote the free alternatives that exist
> and the movements that support them, some links:
>
> http://autonomo.us/
> http://wiki.debian.org/FreedomBox
> http://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html
>
I of course agree. If I may, that one is cool too:
http://www.bigbluebutton.org/

Maybe it will reach Debian one day?

Thomas


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On 06/21/2012 10:39 PM, Jon Dowland wrote:
> Fair enough - but let's not lob hand grenades at people who might find it
> useful. Let them get on with it if they want to.
>
Sorry, but it's fair enough to "lob hand grenades" at people suggesting
non open source solutions, useful or not. Feel free to get on them if you
wish, but please do not suggest it inside Debian.

Thomas


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On 22/06/12 07:12, Thomas Goirand wrote:

On 06/21/2012 10:39 PM, Jon Dowland wrote:

Fair enough - but let's not lob hand grenades at people who might find it
useful. Let them get on with it if they want to.


Sorry, but it's fair enough to "lob hand grenades" at people suggesting
non open source solutions, useful or not. Feel free to get on them if you
wish, but please do not suggest it inside Debian.

Thomas

Huh.
So physically travelling to a potentially distant location for a bug
squash is the Debian way?


Anyway, I'd like to see something like http://www.bigbluebutton.org/ but
with multiple participants, be it Google+ or something else that can do
that.


I know that one useful aspect of IRC is the ability to archive and
review the session, so it should have that feature too.


I must admit I have something in mind for the future that will fit this
requirement, so anything out there that comes close is of interest to me.


Regards,
Philip Ashmore


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On Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:00:13 +0100
Philip Ashmore <contact@philipashmore.com> wrote:

> On 22/06/12 07:12, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> > On 06/21/2012 10:39 PM, Jon Dowland wrote:
> >> Fair enough - but let's not lob hand grenades at people who might find it
> >> useful. Let them get on with it if they want to.
> >>
> > Sorry, but it's fair enough to "lob hand grenades" at people suggesting
> > non open source solutions, useful or not. Feel free to get on them if you
> > wish, but please do not suggest it inside Debian.
> >
> > Thomas

> So physically travelling to a potentially distant location for a bug
> squash is the Debian way?

Yes, it's a lot more fun to work alongside others and you get to have
some beer with new friends, your patches benefit from direct
contributions of others around the same table and there is always room
for more social involvement between people in Debian. We all spend too
long alone with just a laptop for company.

Bug squashing parties are *social* events where bugs happen to get
fixed.

If everything was to be done only remotely there would be no bug
squashing parties at all. There might be lots of bugs fixed but that
isn't a party.

--


Neil Williams
=============
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/

On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 07:25:51PM +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> Bug squashing parties are *social* events where bugs happen to get
> fixed.

http://wiki.debian.org/BSPMarathonWheezy should be useful for anyone
who thinks we're making people travel too long for these things. Host
a BSP! Even if it's just you and one other, it's a success if you make
any progress on any bug at all. Or even if you only have a good time.

--
I wrote a book: http://gtdfh.branchable.com/

Hi,

On Freitag, 22. Juni 2012, Neil Williams wrote:
> Bug squashing parties are *social* events where bugs happen to get
> fixed.

soon there will be a 14 day BSP, in Central America, in Managua :-D
You'll be able to participate remotly, mostly via IRC


cheers,
Holger


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