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Old 05-31-2012, 09:20 PM
Gunnar Wolf
 
Default Packaging a new release of released SW, not considered by the DM?

Svante Signell dijo [Thu, May 31, 2012 at 10:22:21PM +0200]:
> Hi,
>
> A Short question. Is it possible to ITP a new release of some software
> not being even considered by the DM, for whatever reason. Wishlist bugs
> are submitted, etc. According to if there is no reply of bug reports,
> there seems to be no interest at all from the DM to package that piece
> of SW, not even for experimental. If not possible, why? What does the
> Debian Policy state?

It's *usually* not what you want to do. There are several cases where
different versions of the same program are available in Debian, and I
am unfamiliar with the case at hand, but it's usually where a specific
older version of a package is depended upon by large amounts of
software, and changes in new versions are not compatible. They often
bring in maintenance hell issues.

In this case, you should discuss with the DM about the "whatever
reason" you mention, maybe bring it up here (so it gets wider exposure
and more informed people get to have a say). You can ultimately ask
the Technical Committee, but that's a venue of action very seldom
taken (and I think that even "very seldom" might be an overstatement).


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Old 05-31-2012, 09:20 PM
Gunnar Wolf
 
Default Packaging a new release of released SW, not considered by the DM?

Svante Signell dijo [Thu, May 31, 2012 at 10:22:21PM +0200]:
> Hi,
>
> A Short question. Is it possible to ITP a new release of some software
> not being even considered by the DM, for whatever reason. Wishlist bugs
> are submitted, etc. According to if there is no reply of bug reports,
> there seems to be no interest at all from the DM to package that piece
> of SW, not even for experimental. If not possible, why? What does the
> Debian Policy state?

It's *usually* not what you want to do. There are several cases where
different versions of the same program are available in Debian, and I
am unfamiliar with the case at hand, but it's usually where a specific
older version of a package is depended upon by large amounts of
software, and changes in new versions are not compatible. They often
bring in maintenance hell issues.

In this case, you should discuss with the DM about the "whatever
reason" you mention, maybe bring it up here (so it gets wider exposure
and more informed people get to have a say). You can ultimately ask
the Technical Committee, but that's a venue of action very seldom
taken (and I think that even "very seldom" might be an overstatement).


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Old 05-31-2012, 09:45 PM
Svante Signell
 
Default Packaging a new release of released SW, not considered by the DM?

On Thu, 2012-05-31 at 16:20 -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> Svante Signell dijo [Thu, May 31, 2012 at 10:22:21PM +0200]:
> > Hi,
> >
> > A Short question. Is it possible to ITP a new release of some software
> > not being even considered by the DM, for whatever reason. Wishlist bugs
> > are submitted, etc. According to if there is no reply of bug reports,
> > there seems to be no interest at all from the DM to package that piece
> > of SW, not even for experimental. If not possible, why? What does the
> > Debian Policy state?
>
> It's *usually* not what you want to do. There are several cases where
> different versions of the same program are available in Debian, and I
> am unfamiliar with the case at hand, but it's usually where a specific
> older version of a package is depended upon by large amounts of
> software, and changes in new versions are not compatible. They often
> bring in maintenance hell issues.
>
> In this case, you should discuss with the DM about the "whatever
> reason" you mention, maybe bring it up here (so it gets wider exposure
> and more informed people get to have a say). You can ultimately ask
> the Technical Committee, but that's a venue of action very seldom
> taken (and I think that even "very seldom" might be an overstatement).

Thank you for your time,

Fortunately, I'm not a hurd porter any longer an whatever you choose to
do it is not longer my business. Thank you for your attention


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Old 05-31-2012, 10:40 PM
Gunnar Wolf
 
Default Packaging a new release of released SW, not considered by the DM?

Svante Signell dijo [Thu, May 31, 2012 at 11:45:13PM +0200]:
> > It's *usually* not what you want to do. There are several cases where
> > different versions of the same program are available in Debian, and I
> > am unfamiliar with the case at hand, but it's usually where a specific
> > older version of a package is depended upon by large amounts of
> > software, and changes in new versions are not compatible. They often
> > bring in maintenance hell issues.
> >
> > In this case, you should discuss with the DM about the "whatever
> > reason" you mention, maybe bring it up here (so it gets wider exposure
> > and more informed people get to have a say). You can ultimately ask
> > the Technical Committee, but that's a venue of action very seldom
> > taken (and I think that even "very seldom" might be an overstatement).
>
> Thank you for your time,
>
> Fortunately, I'm not a hurd porter any longer an whatever you choose to
> do it is not longer my business. Thank you for your attention

Huh‽

Well, the original question I replied to was posted by you... I fail
to understand your answer. There was no mention of any specific
program, architecture, kernel or whatever.


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Old 06-01-2012, 07:16 AM
Svante Signell
 
Default Packaging a new release of released SW, not considered by the DM?

On Thu, 2012-05-31 at 17:40 -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> Svante Signell dijo [Thu, May 31, 2012 at 11:45:13PM +0200]:
> > > It's *usually* not what you want to do. There are several cases where
> > > different versions of the same program are available in Debian, and I
> > > am unfamiliar with the case at hand, but it's usually where a specific
> > > older version of a package is depended upon by large amounts of
> > > software, and changes in new versions are not compatible. They often
> > > bring in maintenance hell issues.

One example is to upload a new release to experimental, not sid! Being
there does not automatically make it progress to sid, tesing and stable
does it?

> > > In this case, you should discuss with the DM about the "whatever
> > > reason" you mention, maybe bring it up here (so it gets wider exposure
> > > and more informed people get to have a say). You can ultimately ask
> > > the Technical Committee, but that's a venue of action very seldom
> > > taken (and I think that even "very seldom" might be an overstatement).

Well the DM is *non-responsive*, what to do?

> > Thank you for your time,
> >
> > Fortunately, I'm not a hurd porter any longer an whatever you choose to
> > do it is not longer my business. Thank you for your attention
>
> Huh‽
>
> Well, the original question I replied to was posted by you... I fail
> to understand your answer. There was no mention of any specific
> program, architecture, kernel or whatever.

Just to clarify, I have been contributing with bug reports and patches
for various packages, etc for a long time. I'm not a DM or DD.

Regarding DMs the non-responsiveness of *some* of them is frustrating,
they don't bother to comment on _any_ of the bug reports. Is that the
way a DM is supposed to work? And with the recent discussions on d-devel
about hijacking etc it seems that if you are a DM for a package is set
in stone *forever*.

I really wonder if Debian is for me at all. There are other free
software distributions, Ubuntu, Redhat Fedora, Mandriva, etc. I've been
contributing there before. And there are even really free software
distributions. So why stick to Debian?



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Old 06-01-2012, 08:28 AM
Dominique Dumont
 
Default Packaging a new release of released SW, not considered by the DM?

On Friday 01 June 2012 09:16:35 Svante Signell wrote:
> Regarding DMs the non-responsiveness of some of them is frustrating,
> they don't bother to comment on any of the bug reports. Is that the
> way a DM is supposed to work?

I don't think so.

> And with the recent discussions on d-devel
> about hijacking etc it seems that if you are a DM for a package is set
> in stone *forever*.

There's a middle ground between hijacking and letting a package rot: Debian
developers reference provides instructions to deal with "inactive
and/or unreachable maintainers" [1]. I know from experience that
following this process is an exercice is patience, but it's the
best way to deal with maintainers which may be distracted by, well,
real life events.

> I really wonder if Debian is for me at all. There are other free
> software distributions, Ubuntu, Redhat Fedora, Mandriva, etc. I've been
> contributing there before. And there are even really free software
> distributions. So why stick to Debian?

Heh, I could give you an answer, but it would be valid only for me ;-)

All the best

[1] http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/beyond-pkging.html#mia-qa

--
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http://ddumont.wordpress.com/ -o- irc: dod at irc.debian.org


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Old 06-01-2012, 09:12 AM
Jonas Smedegaard
 
Default Packaging a new release of released SW, not considered by the DM?

Hi Svante,

On 12-06-01 at 09:16am, Svante Signell wrote:
> Regarding DMs the non-responsiveness of *some* of them is frustrating,
> they don't bother to comment on _any_ of the bug reports. Is that the
> way a DM is supposed to work? And with the recent discussions on
> d-devel about hijacking etc it seems that if you are a DM for a
> package is set in stone *forever*.

The general rule is that when you are maintainer for a package, you stay
maintainer.

...but maintainer role is not "forever", though. But Debian praise
stability and reliability, and both are generally helped when you are
not "shopping around" but devote time to and grow detailed knowledge
about specific pieces over longer time.

...but Debian rules are not set in stone, either¹. Note how I said
"generally" several times above. What you experience at the mailinglist
is discussing what is facts *today*, both to hold each other to an
agreed consensus, and to consider if relevant to change to a different
(hopefully better) consensus in the future.

Hope that helped you gain interest in Debian :-)


- Jonas

P.S.

I am not _always_ yelling and nitpicking. At least that's what Siri (my
girlfriend), Gunnar Wolf and Andreas Tille tells me...


¹ Ahem. Debian Policy _is_ probably what most would call "set in stone",
but - as I suspect was also partly Andreas Tille's point in his
once-a-day mail yesterday - we wrote that "law" ourselves, and are free
to rewrite it. So soapstone or something... :-)

--
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

[x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private
 

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