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Old 05-26-2012, 02:47 PM
Thomas Goirand
 
Default Moving /tmp to tmpfs makes it useful

On 05/26/2012 04:40 PM, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
> On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 03:24:02AM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>
>>> /tmp 8,0G 60M 8,0G 1% /tmp
>>> Does this count as "large files"?
>>> As "a lot of small-only files"?
>>>
>>>
>> Exactly how is this a practical explanation and example? :/
>> Are you saying that in *your case* /tmp is almost unused?
>>
> I'm saying that 60M is a substantial amount which still may be not called
> "large".
>
Try playing a 2h video with flash, and see that 60 MB isn't enough...

Thomas


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Old 05-26-2012, 02:50 PM
Andrey Rahmatullin
 
Default Moving /tmp to tmpfs makes it useful

On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 10:47:37PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> >>> /tmp 8,0G 60M 8,0G 1% /tmp
> >>> Does this count as "large files"?
> >>> As "a lot of small-only files"?
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Exactly how is this a practical explanation and example? :/
> >> Are you saying that in *your case* /tmp is almost unused?
> >>
> > I'm saying that 60M is a substantial amount which still may be not called
> > "large".
> >
> Try playing a 2h video with flash, and see that 60 MB isn't enough...
Enough for what? 60 Mb is used space, not total space. And how is that
relevant to my question anyway?

--
WBR, wRAR
 
Old 05-26-2012, 02:53 PM
Thomas Goirand
 
Default Moving /tmp to tmpfs makes it useful

On 05/26/2012 01:33 PM, Clint Byrum wrote:
> On laptops and other power sensitive devices, this is pretty critical.
>
> Hypothetical: I have 2GB of RAM, and I want to watch a 50MB video file
> on a connection that will take, say, 10 minutes to cache the whole thing
> (and its a 10 minute video).
>
> With a regular filesystem hosting /tmp, Every 30 seconds I will wake up
> the hard disk, and write data to it. I doubt most spinning disks will
> go to sleep in < 30 seconds, so this is more than 10 minutes solid of
> hard disk spinning.
>
> With tmpfs, there is no memory pressure, so my disk never even spins up
> to write anything to it. If I do run into memory pressure, yes, I need
> to use swap at that point. But at that point I've got a lot more than
> just the disk draining power.
>

Now, another hypothetical. Same machine but with 1 GB of RAM (please,
don't tell me that's unusual...), a 600 MB video file, with a video that
is 2
hours long. You have Firefox started (to watch the video), and many
pluggins and many tabs open, and it's taking 600 MB of RAM (that's
nothing really unusual, unfortunately). After a while, your HDD starts
spinning like hell, because it's swapping...

Thomas


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Old 05-26-2012, 03:14 PM
François Bottin
 
Default Moving /tmp to tmpfs makes it useful

On 05/26/2012 04:47 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:

Try playing a 2h video with flash, and see that 60 MB isn't enough...


If Adobe Flash is broken, then fix it!


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Old 05-26-2012, 05:08 PM
Thomas Goirand
 
Default Moving /tmp to tmpfs makes it useful

On 05/26/2012 11:14 PM, François Bottin wrote:
> On 05/26/2012 04:47 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>> Try playing a 2h video with flash, and see that 60 MB isn't enough...
>
> If Adobe Flash is broken, then fix it!
>
>
I will let you ask the sources from Adobe, create an
alternative *that works*. I will also let you fix all
the other apps that we mentioned that have the same
kind of issues. But *IN THE MEAN WHILE*, until you are
done with this huge and important work, let's not
change the default to tmpfs.

Cheers,

Thomas


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Old 05-26-2012, 05:13 PM
Russ Allbery
 
Default Moving /tmp to tmpfs makes it useful

Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> writes:

> I will let you ask the sources from Adobe, create an alternative *that
> works*. I will also let you fix all the other apps that we mentioned
> that have the same kind of issues. But *IN THE MEAN WHILE*, until you
> are done with this huge and important work, let's not change the default
> to tmpfs.

I find some of the assertions in this thread confusing. I've been using
tmpfs /tmp on my laptop for quite some time and have watched hour-long
movies via the Adobe Flash player and have never noticed any unexpected
consumption of space in /tmp.

Are you sure that video streaming via Adobe's Flash player works the way
that you seem to think it works?

--
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>


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Old 05-26-2012, 05:20 PM
Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez
 
Default Moving /tmp to tmpfs makes it useful

On 26/05/12 19:13, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> writes:
>
>> I will let you ask the sources from Adobe, create an alternative *that
>> works*. I will also let you fix all the other apps that we mentioned
>> that have the same kind of issues. But *IN THE MEAN WHILE*, until you
>> are done with this huge and important work, let's not change the default
>> to tmpfs.
>
> I find some of the assertions in this thread confusing. I've been using
> tmpfs /tmp on my laptop for quite some time and have watched hour-long
> movies via the Adobe Flash player and have never noticed any unexpected
> consumption of space in /tmp.
>
> Are you sure that video streaming via Adobe's Flash player works the way
> that you seem to think it works?
>

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=666096

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Igalia - Free Software Engineering http://www.igalia.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Old 05-26-2012, 05:43 PM
Russ Allbery
 
Default Moving /tmp to tmpfs makes it useful

Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez <clopez@igalia.com> writes:
> On 26/05/12 19:13, Russ Allbery wrote:

>> I find some of the assertions in this thread confusing. I've been
>> using tmpfs /tmp on my laptop for quite some time and have watched
>> hour-long movies via the Adobe Flash player and have never noticed any
>> unexpected consumption of space in /tmp.

>> Are you sure that video streaming via Adobe's Flash player works the
>> way that you seem to think it works?

> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=666096

That bug contains little actual information, not even what software was
being used.

--
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Old 05-26-2012, 06:20 PM
Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez
 
Default Moving /tmp to tmpfs makes it useful

On 26/05/12 19:43, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez <clopez@igalia.com> writes:
>> On 26/05/12 19:13, Russ Allbery wrote:
>
>>> I find some of the assertions in this thread confusing. I've been
>>> using tmpfs /tmp on my laptop for quite some time and have watched
>>> hour-long movies via the Adobe Flash player and have never noticed any
>>> unexpected consumption of space in /tmp.
>
>>> Are you sure that video streaming via Adobe's Flash player works the
>>> way that you seem to think it works?
>
>> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=666096
>
> That bug contains little actual information, not even what software was
> being used.
>

Ok... so you want a prove?

* Open with iceweasel http://vimeo.com/13726978
* Ensure that is playing with flashplayer (right click on the movie
should show the typical dialog that includes "about flashplayer"
* Now launch:
watch df -h /tmp/
* And see how the space used grows.

*Important*: use "df -h /tmp" NOT "du -hs /tmp", since the flash player
deletes the file entry from /tmp as soon as it gets the inode allocated.
I believe this a measure to "prevent" piracy (people ripping the video
from /tmp)

See:

ls -l /proc/$(ps aux|grep libf[l]ashplayer.so|awk '{print $2}')/fd

And see how there is an entry pointing to /tmp/FlashXXXXXX that appears
as deleted but you can still access it. Just open /proc/pid/fd/number
with vlc for example


Regards!


--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez http://neutrino.es
Igalia - Free Software Engineering http://www.igalia.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Old 05-26-2012, 06:34 PM
Russ Allbery
 
Default Moving /tmp to tmpfs makes it useful

Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez <clopez@igalia.com> writes:
> On 26/05/12 19:43, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez <clopez@igalia.com> writes:

>>> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=666096

>> That bug contains little actual information, not even what software was
>> being used.

> Ok... so you want a prove?

I want the bug report to actually be useful, yes. It's always good to
have a reproducible test case.

> * Open with iceweasel http://vimeo.com/13726978
> * Ensure that is playing with flashplayer (right click on the movie
> should show the typical dialog that includes "about flashplayer"
> * Now launch:
> watch df -h /tmp/
> * And see how the space used grows.

> *Important*: use "df -h /tmp" NOT "du -hs /tmp", since the flash player
> deletes the file entry from /tmp as soon as it gets the inode allocated.
> I believe this a measure to "prevent" piracy (people ripping the video
> from /tmp)

> See:

> ls -l /proc/$(ps aux|grep libf[l]ashplayer.so|awk '{print $2}')/fd

> And see how there is an entry pointing to /tmp/FlashXXXXXX that appears
> as deleted but you can still access it. Just open /proc/pid/fd/number
> with vlc for example

Thank you! Those instructions are very good. I'm copying them to the bug
report so that the bug report contains clear information.

When I did this (on a laptop with 2GB of memory and 2.5GB of swap and a
405MB tmpfs /tmp), the movie exhausted all space in /tmp. It then kept
playing without any trouble, and the system never started swapping or had
any other performance issues. However, /tmp was completely full, and
creating any other files in /tmp resulted in errors (which I know can
cause all sorts of problems for other programs that assume they can always
create small files in /tmp).

I didn't continue to play the movie through to the end, so I don't know if
the movie playback would encounter problems at the point at which the
buffered movie exhausted /tmp or if the Flash player would have coped by
windowing the streaming.

--
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