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Old 05-16-2012, 09:45 AM
Russell Coker
 
Default big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress

I just downloaded the source to Wordpress from Squeeze, it's got a 14M
.debian.tar.xz which is mostly sources for things that are included in the
upstream tarball. The build process appears to only use the upstream tarball
code so the 13MB of data in the debian/missing-sources directory isn't used
for building.

It is a really good thing to have upstream sources available as dictated by
the GPL (well done to whoever did that). But that availability doesn't
require that they be in the source package.

Would it be possible to have somewhere on the Debian servers for storing such
files so that they can be referenced in a README file or something rather than
sent to everyone? I'm sure that most people who build a Wordpress package
won't use them.

--
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My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/


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Old 05-16-2012, 09:53 AM
Paul Wise
 
Default big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Russell Coker wrote:

> I just downloaded the source to Wordpress from Squeeze, it's got a 14M
> .debian.tar.xz which is mostly sources for things that are included in the
> upstream tarball. *The build process appears to only use the upstream tarball
> code so the 13MB of data in the debian/missing-sources directory isn't used
> for building.

Seems like a bug, the best way to determine that sources are still
buildable is to always build them.

> It is a really good thing to have upstream sources available as dictated by
> the GPL (well done to whoever did that). *But that availability doesn't
> require that they be in the source package.
>
> Would it be possible to have somewhere on the Debian servers for storing such
> files so that they can be referenced in a README file or something rather than
> sent to everyone? *I'm sure that most people who build a Wordpress package
> won't use them.

If I downloaded a source package and didn't get source I would be most
unimpressed.

--
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Old 05-16-2012, 12:45 PM
Jon Dowland
 
Default big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 05:53:11PM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> Seems like a bug, the best way to determine that sources are still
> buildable is to always build them.

The stuff is things such as "minified" js. The wordpress source contains the
minified copies, and you can get the originals in separate tarballs from the
wordpress site.

It strikes me that this is *exactly* what the multiple-source-tarballs feature
of 3.0. is for. Although, the fact these sources aren't used at all is
troubling. If Debian used them (implemented the minifying as part of the build
process) we might catch a problem upstream miss (not necessarily a bad thing).

Of course, many of these could be separate source/binary packages in their own
right[1], as they have value outside of wordpress, and be Build-Depends/Depends
of wordpress. In fact a few already are: jquery (already packaged); swfupload
(not yet); tinymce (already packaged)…

[1] http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=collab-maint/wordpress.git;a=blob;f=debian/missing-sources/README;h=3c3b33eadc25e8c43ca6147a185e127a5cc8a856; hb=HEAD


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Old 05-16-2012, 10:24 PM
Peter Samuelson
 
Default big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress

[Russell Coker]
> Would it be possible to have somewhere on the Debian servers for
> storing such files so that they can be referenced in a README file or
> something rather than sent to everyone? I'm sure that most people
> who build a Wordpress package won't use them.

As Paul Wise said, best if we _do_ build things from source rather than
relying on upstream binaries.

But beyond that, if there is to be a separate place to put "all the
WordPress source we want to provide but you probably don't really
need", for GPL reasons, it needs to be on all the mirrors alongside the
source package you _do_ install. Not on some other website.

So I guess that brings us to a .dsc that can reference multiple
upstream tarballs (already possible, of course) but mark them such that
by default you only download or unpack _some_ of the tarballs.

The other option of course is to split wordpress into two source
packages, and move all the "users probably don't ever need to rebuild
this" stuff into the second source package and its corresponding binary
package, which regular wordpress can depend on.


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Old 05-17-2012, 06:20 AM
Thomas Goirand
 
Default big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress

On 05/16/2012 08:45 PM, Jon Dowland wrote:
> Of course, many of these could be separate source/binary packages in their own
> right[1], as they have value outside of wordpress, and be Build-Depends/Depends
> of wordpress. In fact a few already are: jquery (already packaged); swfupload
> (not yet); tinymce (already packaged)
Unfortunately, swfupload *cannot* be packaged in Debian because we have
no ways
of building it (unless the situation changed with adobe tools... in
which case,
I would really like to hear about it!). The only thing you could package
would
be a very old version of it.

Thomas


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Old 05-17-2012, 07:26 AM
Paul Wise
 
Default big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress

On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:

> Unfortunately, swfupload *cannot* be packaged in Debian because we have
> no ways of building it (unless the situation changed with adobe tools... in
> which case, I would really like to hear about it!). The only thing you could package
> would be a very old version of it.

Now that we have an AS3 compiler in Debian (as3compile in swftools)
maybe that would work?

--
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Old 05-17-2012, 07:55 AM
Yves-Alexis Perez
 
Default big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress

On mer., 2012-05-16 at 19:45 +1000, Russell Coker wrote:
> I just downloaded the source to Wordpress from Squeeze, it's got a 14M
> .debian.tar.xz which is mostly sources for things that are included in the
> upstream tarball. The build process appears to only use the upstream tarball
> code so the 13MB of data in the debian/missing-sources directory isn't used
> for building.
>
> It is a really good thing to have upstream sources available as dictated by
> the GPL (well done to whoever did that). But that availability doesn't
> require that they be in the source package.
>
> Would it be possible to have somewhere on the Debian servers for storing such
> files so that they can be referenced in a README file or something rather than
> sent to everyone? I'm sure that most people who build a Wordpress package
> won't use them.
>
Any reason you didn't CC: wordpress maintainers? (I guess they are
subscribed to -devel but considering the current mail rate, I'm unsure
they'll read everything so it might make sense to CC: them at first…)

Regards,
--
Yves-Alexis
 
Old 05-17-2012, 08:38 AM
Jon Dowland
 
Default big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress

On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 02:20:48PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> Unfortunately, swfupload *cannot* be packaged in Debian because we have no
> ways of building it (unless the situation changed with adobe tools... in
> which case, I would really like to hear about it!). The only thing you could
> package would be a very old version of it.

So if I understand the situation correctly; wordpress ships a pre-build binary
which cannot be generated in Debian? Whether the source is in a separate
package or not, this does not feel right.


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Old 05-17-2012, 10:10 AM
Toni Mueller
 
Default big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 05:53:11PM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Russell Coker wrote:
> > Would it be possible to have somewhere on the Debian servers for storing such
> > files so that they can be referenced in a README file or something rather than
> > sent to everyone? *I'm sure that most people who build a Wordpress package
> > won't use them.
>
> If I downloaded a source package and didn't get source I would be most
> unimpressed.

Seconded!

If you say "download some, and ignore the others in most cases", please
consider that in the case you really find out that you need the source,
you'll most likely be offline, and cannot do much about it (Murphy's
laws apply generously).

So I'd say, better get the whole chunk in one go to be safe.

Imho, much of the value of being entitled to have source is in actually
having it, instantanously, as opposed to merely having a legal option to
get it somehow, sometime.

Of course, YMMV.


Kind regards,
--Toni++


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Old 05-17-2012, 02:56 PM
Jon Dowland
 
Default big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress

On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 12:10:55PM +0200, Toni Mueller wrote:
> If you say "download some, and ignore the others in most cases", please
> consider that in the case you really find out that you need the source,
> you'll most likely be offline, and cannot do much about it (Murphy's
> laws apply generously).

Hopefully you've got the build-dependencies too. Which, if the source packages
were split off into other packages, you'd then pull in.


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