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Old 12-17-2011, 10:35 AM
Philip Ashmore
 
Default Bug#652423: Acknowledgement (ITP: v3c -- C/C++/sh/make/automake/Debian utility toolkit)

Long description:
utility C/C++ include files
libv3c - a C/C++ library
v3c - a utility program meant to be used in scripts or from the
command line

makefile includes - see v3c's client projects "makefile" for examples
automake/aclocal m4 macros - see v3c's client projects for examples


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Old 12-17-2011, 11:59 AM
Reinhard Tartler
 
Default Bug#652423: Acknowledgement (ITP: v3c -- C/C++/sh/make/automake/Debian utility toolkit)

On Sa, Dez 17, 2011 at 12:35:15 (CET), Philip Ashmore wrote:

> Long description:
> utility C/C++ include files
> libv3c - a C/C++ library
> v3c - a utility program meant to be used in scripts or from the command
> line
> makefile includes - see v3c's client projects "makefile" for examples
> automake/aclocal m4 macros - see v3c's client projects for examples

This description fails to explain what this package is intended for and
how it relates and is better to alternatives in Debian. After reading
the package description, the reader should be able to decide if the
package satisfies the user's requirements.

cf. http://mdcc.cx/debian/descriptions.html and many other guidelines on
the internet.

--
Gruesse/greetings,
Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4


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Old 12-17-2011, 02:29 PM
David Prvot
 
Default Bug#652423: Acknowledgement (ITP: v3c -- C/C++/sh/make/automake/Debian utility toolkit)

Le 17/12/2011 08:59, Reinhard Tartler a crit :
> On Sa, Dez 17, 2011 at 12:35:15 (CET), Philip Ashmore wrote:
>
>> Long description:
>> utility C/C++ include files
>> libv3c - a C/C++ library
>> v3c - a utility program meant to be used in scripts or from the command
>> line
>> makefile includes - see v3c's client projects "makefile" for examples
>> automake/aclocal m4 macros - see v3c's client projects for examples
>
> This description fails to explain what this package is intended for and
> how it relates and is better to alternatives in Debian. After reading
> the package description, the reader should be able to decide if the
> package satisfies the user's requirements.
>
> cf. http://mdcc.cx/debian/descriptions.html and many other guidelines on
> the internet.

Please prefer the up to date developers' reference:

http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices#bpp-desc-basics
www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices#bpp-pkg-synopsis
www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices#bpp-pkg-desc

Regards

David
 
Old 12-17-2011, 11:50 PM
Philip Ashmore
 
Default Bug#652423: Acknowledgement (ITP: v3c -- C/C++/sh/make/automake/Debian utility toolkit)

On 17/12/11 15:29, David Prvot wrote:

Le 17/12/2011 08:59, Reinhard Tartler a crit :

On Sa, Dez 17, 2011 at 12:35:15 (CET), Philip Ashmore wrote:


Long description:
utility C/C++ include files
libv3c - a C/C++ library
v3c - a utility program meant to be used in scripts or from the command
line
makefile includes - see v3c's client projects "makefile" for examples
automake/aclocal m4 macros - see v3c's client projects for examples

This description fails to explain what this package is intended for and
how it relates and is better to alternatives in Debian. After reading
the package description, the reader should be able to decide if the
package satisfies the user's requirements.

cf. http://mdcc.cx/debian/descriptions.html and many other guidelines on
the internet.

Please prefer the up to date developers' reference:

http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices#bpp-desc-basics
www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices#bpp-pkg-synopsis
www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices#bpp-pkg-desc

Regards

David


package_description: automake wrapper + utility toolkit
package_long_description:
Highlights:
= "make" wrapper =
make - configures + builds the package (debug mode by default - see
below)

make dist - builds a distribution tar ball
make check - runs the packages automake checks
make distcheck - builds a distribution tar ball, installs and "make
check"s it
make install - installs the package - may require elevated (root)
privileges

.
= GIT version control =
make git branch=master - build the "master" branch
make git tag=test1.2.3 - build the branch locally tagged as "test1.2.3"
.
= Debian/Ubuntu packages =
make debian - runs "make distcheck", then builds Debian/Ubuntu packages
.
= build modes =
You can choose several configurations using "build modes" - "debug"
and "release"

are available by default, and "debug" is the default build mode.
make debian (optimizations off unless "release" was the last build
mode used)

make release debian (optimizations on)
make git tag=new2 debug distcheck
The build system remembers your last build mode, so
make release
...tests+edits
make (uses the last build mode - release in this case)
...tests+edits
make debug
...tests+edits
make install
...tests+edits
make uninstall
This gives you a relatively quick turnaround for testing/debugging.
.
= libv3c = - a C/C++ utility library
.
= doxygen documentation integration =
make doxygen-doc - generates html documentation from the packages
source files

make install-doxygen-doc - installs it
.
= v3c = - a utility program for use in scripts or the command line
The "v3c" build system uses this extensively.
.
= lots of examples/tests =
Run "make check" to see more.

Please let me know what you think.

Regards,
Philip Ashmore


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Old 12-18-2011, 12:30 AM
David Prévot
 
Default Bug#652423: Acknowledgement (ITP: v3c -- C/C++/sh/make/automake/Debian utility toolkit)

Le 17/12/2011 20:50, Philip Ashmore a écrit :
> On 17/12/11 15:29, David Prévot wrote:

>> Please prefer the up to date developers' reference:
>>
>> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices#bpp-desc-basics

[…]
> Please let me know what you think.

Quote from the previous URL:

“If you are having problems writing your description, you may wish to
send it along to <debian-l10n-english@lists.debian.org> and request
feedback.”

Regards

David
 
Old 12-18-2011, 06:34 AM
Philip Ashmore
 
Default Bug#652423: Acknowledgement (ITP: v3c -- C/C++/sh/make/automake/Debian utility toolkit)

On 18/12/11 01:30, David Prévot wrote:

Le 17/12/2011 20:50, Philip Ashmore a écrit :

On 17/12/11 15:29, David Prévot wrote:

Please prefer the up to date developers' reference:

http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices#bpp-desc-basics

[…]

Please let me know what you think.

Quote from the previous URL:

“If you are having problems writing your description, you may wish to
send it along to<debian-l10n-english@lists.debian.org> and request
feedback.”

Regards

David

Hmm. I'm a native English speaker although being from Ireland the odd
twang may creep in.
I read the "best packaging practices link" above but I couldn't figure
out how to add formatting to the

long description.

Is that where you think I need help?

Otherwise, if your issue is with me asking for a review of the packages
long description,
martin f krafft <madduck@debian.org> complained about the lack of long
descriptions for my ITPs,

which I duly addressed.

Then Reinhard Tartler <siretart@debian.org> had legitimate issues that I
addressed with the updated long description.


If no one has any more issues with the new long description then I'll
assume all is well.


Regards,
Philip Ashmore


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Old 12-18-2011, 07:35 AM
martin f krafft
 
Default Bug#652423: Acknowledgement (ITP: v3c -- C/C++/sh/make/automake/Debian utility toolkit)

also sprach Philip Ashmore <contact@philipashmore.com> [2011.12.18.0834 +0100]:
> If no one has any more issues with the new long description then
> I'll assume all is well.

Hello Philip,

a long description is neither a text of marketing, nor should it be
a complete list of features. The former can go on a website, the
latter should be found in a README file.

The long description should preemptively provide a user with enough
information so that s/he can make a choice. It should be written
with complete sentences in free text, with an informative, objective
style.

A rough guidelines of questions to be answered across three
paragraphs could be:

1. What is the general purpose of the software in this package, or
the collection of software that this package belongs to?

2. What distinguishes this software from other software? For what
use cases was the software designed?

3. How does this package fit in into a collection (unless it's
a single package)? Are there any other noteworthy things that
the user might need to know to decide for or against a piece of
software?

Compare this to the description you propose in

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=652423#15

utility C/C++ include files
libv3c - a C/C++ library
v3c - a utility program meant to be used in scripts or from the
command line
makefile includes - see v3c's client projects "makefile" for examples
automake/aclocal m4 macros - see v3c's client projects for examples

What you are doing is providing a list of contents. Instead, I would
suggest this:

v3c is a C++ programming toolkit that …. It was written because ….

The intended use cases of v3c are …. Compared to other software
(e.g. example1, example2), it is optimised for ….

This package provides a utility program to interact … and control
….

--
.'`. martin f. krafft <madduck@d.o> Related projects:
: :' : proud Debian developer http://debiansystem.info
`. `'` http://people.debian.org/~madduck http://vcs-pkg.org
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems

"the unexamined life is not worth living"
-- platon
 
Old 12-18-2011, 08:41 AM
Philip Ashmore
 
Default Bug#652423: Acknowledgement (ITP: v3c -- C/C++/sh/make/automake/Debian utility toolkit)

On 18/12/11 08:35, martin f krafft wrote:

also sprach Philip Ashmore<contact@philipashmore.com> [2011.12.18.0834 +0100]:

If no one has any more issues with the new long description then
I'll assume all is well.


Hello Philip,

a long description is neither a text of marketing, nor should it be
a complete list of features. The former can go on a website, the
latter should be found in a README file.

The long description should preemptively provide a user with enough
information so that s/he can make a choice. It should be written
with complete sentences in free text, with an informative, objective
style.

A rough guidelines of questions to be answered across three
paragraphs could be:

1. What is the general purpose of the software in this package, or
the collection of software that this package belongs to?

2. What distinguishes this software from other software? For what
use cases was the software designed?

3. How does this package fit in into a collection (unless it's
a single package)? Are there any other noteworthy things that
the user might need to know to decide for or against a piece of
software?

Being too familiar with a package sometimes has it's drawbacks.
Here's my revised long description, based on your feedback - thanks!

v3c is a wrapper package that provides a standard means of interacting with
packages by providing "boilerplate" code, programs and scripts, and allowing
you to manipulate a package through "make" targets, such as
.
make check
make dist
make distcheck
make git branch=1.3.5 release debian
make install
make distclean
.
Among its capabilities are doxygen documentation integration, Git version
control integration, configurable build modes (for debug and release builds,
for example), and the ability to specify most configurable options in the
top-level makefile.
It also provides a C++ class library for use in client projects.
Run "make check" to see test/example C++ programs that use it.
.
See treedb, meta-treedb, v3c-dcom and v3c-qt as examples of projects that use
the v3c build framework.

Regards,
Philip Ashmore


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Old 12-18-2011, 09:34 AM
martin f krafft
 
Default Bug#652423: Acknowledgement (ITP: v3c -- C/C++/sh/make/automake/Debian utility toolkit)

also sprach Philip Ashmore <contact@philipashmore.com> [2011.12.18.1041 +0100]:
> Being too familiar with a package sometimes has it's drawbacks.

Absolutely. Thank you for your patience!

> v3c is a wrapper package that provides a standard means of interacting with
> packages by providing "boilerplate" code, programs and scripts, and allowing
> you to manipulate a package through "make" targets, such as
> .
> make check
> make dist
> make distcheck
> make git branch=1.3.5 release debian
> make install
> make distclean

How about:

v3c is a build framework that ties in with GNU make, providing
"boilerplate" code for the most common use cases of building
software.

I'd say that's enough, no need to enumerate example targets.

> Among its capabilities are doxygen documentation integration, Git version
> control integration, configurable build modes (for debug and release builds,
> for example), and the ability to specify most configurable options in the
> top-level makefile.

Good!

> It also provides a C++ class library for use in client projects.
> Run "make check" to see test/example C++ programs that use it.

Why would I want to use build framework from within C++? Maybe you
can try to answer this question.

The note about "make check" should go into the README file, IMHO.

> See treedb, meta-treedb, v3c-dcom and v3c-qt as examples of
> projects that use the v3c build framework.

Ok. I am still somewhat confused why the project v3c-dcom and v3c-qt
carry the name of the build framework in the package names, but
I suppose I would look at those packages' descriptions to find out
more.

Cheers,

--
.'`. martin f. krafft <madduck@d.o> Related projects:
: :' : proud Debian developer http://debiansystem.info
`. `'` http://people.debian.org/~madduck http://vcs-pkg.org
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems

"toleranz heit, die fehler der anderen entschuldigen.
takt heit, sie nicht bemerken."
-- arthur schnitzler
 
Old 12-18-2011, 01:00 PM
Philip Ashmore
 
Default Bug#652423: Acknowledgement (ITP: v3c -- C/C++/sh/make/automake/Debian utility toolkit)

On 18/12/11 10:34, martin f krafft wrote:

also sprach Philip Ashmore<contact@philipashmore.com> [2011.12.18.1041 +0100]:

Being too familiar with a package sometimes has it's drawbacks.


Absolutely. Thank you for your patience!


v3c is a wrapper package that provides a standard means of interacting with
packages by providing "boilerplate" code, programs and scripts, and allowing
you to manipulate a package through "make" targets, such as
.
make check
make dist
make distcheck
make git branch=1.3.5 release debian
make install
make distclean


How about:

v3c is a build framework that ties in with GNU make, providing
"boilerplate" code for the most common use cases of building
software.

I'd say that's enough, no need to enumerate example targets.


Among its capabilities are doxygen documentation integration, Git version
control integration, configurable build modes (for debug and release builds,
for example), and the ability to specify most configurable options in the
top-level makefile.


Good!


It also provides a C++ class library for use in client projects.
Run "make check" to see test/example C++ programs that use it.


Why would I want to use build framework from within C++? Maybe you
can try to answer this question.

The C/C++ library is just another goodie in the goodie-bag.
It would help provide C/C++ developers with most everything they would
need to start out with packages, using the v3c tests/examples as
starting points.


I'm not a huge automake fan, but until something much better comes along,
it's widely used, so here we are.


The note about "make check" should go into the README file, IMHO.


See treedb, meta-treedb, v3c-dcom and v3c-qt as examples of
projects that use the v3c build framework.


Ok. I am still somewhat confused why the project v3c-dcom and v3c-qt
carry the name of the build framework in the package names, but
I suppose I would look at those packages' descriptions to find out
more.
It was either that or name them "dcom", "qt" etc. I've seen a few others
like them.

Treedb and meta-treedb escaped this because they're unique already.
Also, v3c is an easy-to-type, easy-to-read C++ name space.
I'm not on a branding exercise, it just seemed like the thing to do.


Cheers,


So how's this?

v3c is a build framework that ties in with GNU make, providing
"boilerplate" code for the most common use cases of building
software.
.
Among its capabilities are doxygen documentation integration, Git version
control integration, configurable build modes (for debug and release builds,
for example), and the ability to specify most configurable options in the
top-level makefile.
It also provides a general purpose C++ class library for use in client projects.
.
See treedb, meta-treedb, v3c-dcom and v3c-qt as examples of projects that use
the v3c build framework.

Regards,
Philip Ashmore


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