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Old 11-03-2011, 08:39 PM
Joerg Jaspert
 
Default Description-less packages file

Hello world,

I don't know if I really got everyone who should have a copy of this
mail in my CC list, so please forward it to wherever you think I am
missing. Thanks.

I just merged a patch from Ansgar to generate the Packages files without
the English description embedded inside them. Instead they are now
written into a new file, the "English Translation" file in
"main/i18n/Translation-en.bz2". They thus appear alongside all other
translated descriptions as "just another language". apt & co will (or
should) just download those Translation files to show the description,
as they do already for all other languages.
This lets us save quite a bit of space on our mirrors by not repeating
them as many times as we have architectures - and also enables
non-English-speaking users (and eventually multi-arch enabled APT) to
save on download size, as they no longer need to download a language
that is of no use to them or is already there.


As this is is a larger changeset we did not switch the official dists/
tree directly. Instead we are providing files generated in this way over
at [1] for you to test with and report bugs you find in this
implementation or in the handling of it in whatever tool breaks
down. That location is updated right during dinstall so should always
contain current information.

Provided there are no showstoppers turning up we intend to switch the
official dists/ tree one month from now.

[1] http://ftp-master.debian.org/newdists/

--
bye, Joerg
It’s not easy to juggle a pregnant wife and a troubled child, but
somehow I managed to fit in eight hours of TV a day.
 
Old 11-08-2011, 07:28 PM
"Eugene V. Lyubimkin"
 
Default Description-less packages file

Hello,

I welcome this change as it will also bring benefits in the local processing
speed (at least, for some tools).

As for Cupt, a couple of simple patches is needed for the support of
the grabbing new 'Description-md5' from Packages-files, but even
without them the program should work correctly (aside of "seeing" empty
descriptions).

If/when this will go forward, I would like to ask for the official
confirmation a couple of weeks before so there is a time to apply the
patches.

P.S. As David said already, would be nice to see all usual i18n/* files
in newdists/ for the cleaner testing.

P.P.S. Thanks for care.

--
Eugene V. Lyubimkin aka JackYF, JID: jackyf.devel(maildog)gmail.com
C++/Perl developer, Debian Developer


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Old 11-09-2011, 11:27 AM
Gerfried Fuchs
 
Default Description-less packages file

Hey,

* Joerg Jaspert <joerg@debian.org> [2011-11-03 22:39:02 CET]:
> I just merged a patch from Ansgar to generate the Packages files without
> the English description embedded inside them. Instead they are now
> written into a new file, the "English Translation" file in
> "main/i18n/Translation-en.bz2". They thus appear alongside all other
> translated descriptions as "just another language". apt & co will (or
> should) just download those Translation files to show the description,
> as they do already for all other languages.

I am investigating from the packages site point of view already, this
is the case in Ubuntu for a bit already and I can use
packages.ubuntu.com as testbed for that.

I hope to get this done in the not too far future.
Rhonda
--
Fühlst du dich mutlos, fass endlich Mut, los |
Fühlst du dich hilflos, geh raus und hilf, los | Wir sind Helden
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:57 PM
David Kalnischkies
 
Default Description-less packages file

Hi again *,

given that my previous mail was dropped by every list expect
debian-l10n-devel (which dropped it into moderation queue) [1]
let me be offensive and just forward it to debian-devel again
(as i haven't the time to bother [various] listmasters now)
where at least Eugenes mail ended up, even through his was
dropped by other lists, too…

All i can say about that: "Et tu, deity@l.d.o?"
debian-l10n-devel is properly right: Too many to-addresses…

Best regards

David Kalnischkies

[1] http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/debian-l10n-devel/2011-November/001457.html

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David Kalnischkies <kalnischkies@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 21:22
Subject: Re: Description-less packages file
To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, debian-www@lists.debian.org,
debian-release@lists.debian.org, deity@lists.debian.org,
aptitude@packages.debian.org, debian-cd@lists.debian.org,
debian-l10n-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org,
debtags@packages.debian.org, dctrl-tools@packages.debian.org,
debian-services-admin@lists.debian.org, cupt@packages.debian.org,
synaptic@packages.debian.org


Hi *,


First of all: Yeah!

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 16:39, Joerg Jaspert <joerg@debian.org> wrote:
> I just merged a patch from Ansgar to generate the Packages files without
> the English description embedded inside them. Instead they are now
> written into a new file, the "English Translation" file in
> "main/i18n/Translation-en.bz2". They thus appear alongside all other
> translated descriptions as "just another language". apt & co will (or
> should) just download those Translation files to show the description,
> as they do already for all other languages.

Back in the good old days in 2009 [0] in which we discussed that feature
my impression was that we want to remove the long description from the
Packages files, not the complete description - mostly for compatibility
reasons indeed, but having some sort of description available even without
translations doesn't feel that wrong - at least for me.

Anyway, the apt in squeeze supports the removal of long descriptions
in the way it was described back then and is since recently used by
ubuntu as I was told. The complete removal is NOT supported in a way
that it will even do random stuff (aka segfaults) see #647590.

The bugreport claims that aptitude works, which I personally doubt a bit
as it should use the very same codepaths, but even if it would I assume
that other libapt users are failing. I guess other applications/script
make assumptions about the availability of a Description, too.

So, long story short: Is this going to be the implementation ftp-master
chooses for wheezy or are we getting a short description back?

And while we are on it: Could we get i18n/Index (back) and have it look
like a "normal" Release file instead of this ".bz2-only"-listing?
(because apt/wheezy really uses it to avoid requesting not-existent files)


Best regards

David Kalnischkies

[0] http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/debian-l10n-devel/2009-August/000507.html


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Old 11-09-2011, 03:53 PM
Andrew Starr-Bochicchio
 
Default Description-less packages file

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 7:27 AM, Gerfried Fuchs <rhonda@deb.at> wrote:
> *Hey,
>
> * Joerg Jaspert <joerg@debian.org> [2011-11-03 22:39:02 CET]:
>> I just merged a patch from Ansgar to generate the Packages files without
>> the English description embedded inside them. Instead they are now
>> written into a new file, the "English Translation" file in
>> "main/i18n/Translation-en.bz2". They thus appear alongside all other
>> translated descriptions as "just another language". apt & co will (or
>> should) just download those Translation files to show the description,
>> as they do already for all other languages.
>
> *I am investigating from the packages site point of view already, this
> is the case in Ubuntu for a bit already and I can use
> packages.ubuntu.com as testbed for that.

Which is broken due to the change in Ubuntu. Package descriptions are
no longer provided. See for instance:

http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/hello

-- Andrew Starr-Bochicchio

Ubuntu Developer <https://launchpad.net/~andrewsomething>
Debian Maintainer
<http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=a.starr.b%40gmail.com>
PGP/GPG Key ID: D53FDCB1


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Old 11-11-2011, 03:02 PM
Ansgar Burchardt
 
Default Description-less packages file

Hi,

Am 09.11.2011 14:57, schrieb David Kalnischkies:

So, long story short: Is this going to be the implementation ftp-master
chooses for wheezy or are we getting a short description back?


I did not know all details when I wrote the initial patch. Given the
current issues, I plan to update dak to also include the short
description soon.



And while we are on it: Could we get i18n/Index (back) and have it look
like a "normal" Release file instead of this ".bz2-only"-listing?
(because apt/wheezy really uses it to avoid requesting not-existent files)


Yes, this also needs some changes to dak (or the scripts currently used
to manage translations).


Could we just include the Translation-* files in the main Release file
instead? Then they would also be protected from tampering, I think they
are not referenced in any signed file right now. (We can also have them
in both Release and i18n/Index for a transition period.)


Regards,
Ansgar


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Old 11-11-2011, 03:38 PM
"Eugene V. Lyubimkin"
 
Default Description-less packages file

Hi,

On 2011-11-11 17:02, Ansgar Burchardt wrote:
> Could we just include the Translation-* files in the main Release
> file instead?

That would be nice to have.

> Then they would also be protected from tampering, I
> think they are not referenced in any signed file right now.

They are. i18n/Index is referenced from Release.

--
Eugene V. Lyubimkin aka JackYF, JID: jackyf.devel(maildog)gmail.com
C++/Perl developer, Debian Developer


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Old 11-11-2011, 08:24 PM
Joerg Jaspert
 
Default Description-less packages file

On 12659 March 1977, David Kalnischkies wrote:

> So, long story short: Is this going to be the implementation ftp-master
> chooses for wheezy or are we getting a short description back?

Ahwell, thats why we do have that over there in that extra place for
people to check...

I just merged Ansgars patches, next dinstall will produce files with
short description.

--
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You know, boys, a nuclear reactor is a lot like a woman. You just have
to read the manual and press the right buttons.


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Old 11-14-2011, 12:20 AM
Steve McIntyre
 
Default Description-less packages file

On Thu, Nov 03, 2011 at 10:39:02PM +0100, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
>
>I just merged a patch from Ansgar to generate the Packages files without
>the English description embedded inside them. Instead they are now
>written into a new file, the "English Translation" file in
>"main/i18n/Translation-en.bz2". They thus appear alongside all other
>translated descriptions as "just another language". apt & co will (or
>should) just download those Translation files to show the description,
>as they do already for all other languages.
>This lets us save quite a bit of space on our mirrors by not repeating
>them as many times as we have architectures - and also enables
>non-English-speaking users (and eventually multi-arch enabled APT) to
>save on download size, as they no longer need to download a language
>that is of no use to them or is already there.
>
>As this is is a larger changeset we did not switch the official dists/
>tree directly. Instead we are providing files generated in this way over
>at [1] for you to test with and report bugs you find in this
>implementation or in the handling of it in whatever tool breaks
>down. That location is updated right during dinstall so should always
>contain current information.

As far as I can tell, debian-cd should now cope with the change just
fine. Starting with tomorrow's builds, CDs should pick up the existing
translations by default and should then also use Translation-en.bz2
when it appears.

--
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. steve@einval.com
Into the distance, a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back


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Old 11-14-2011, 06:48 AM
Vincent Danjean
 
Default Description-less packages file

Le 14/11/2011 02:20, Steve McIntyre a écrit :

On Thu, Nov 03, 2011 at 10:39:02PM +0100, Joerg Jaspert wrote:


I just merged a patch from Ansgar to generate the Packages files without
the English description embedded inside them. Instead they are now
written into a new file, the "English Translation" file in
"main/i18n/Translation-en.bz2". They thus appear alongside all other
translated descriptions as "just another language". apt& co will (or
should) just download those Translation files to show the description,
as they do already for all other languages.
This lets us save quite a bit of space on our mirrors by not repeating
them as many times as we have architectures - and also enables
non-English-speaking users (and eventually multi-arch enabled APT) to
save on download size, as they no longer need to download a language
that is of no use to them or is already there.


What happens to people using "Acquire::Languages {"none"; } ;" to avoid
to download any other languages than the default one that was included
in the main Package file? [1]

Should they switch to "Acquire::Languages {"en"; } ;" (or any other
language)?
What will happen if they do nothing? (ie how 3rd-party tools will react
if no description is available)?

Regards,
Vincent

[1] side note: it took me a long time to figure that, in order to not
download any translation files, I need the apt setup
(Acquire::Languages {"none"; }) but I *also* need to manually remove any
*Translation* files in /var/lib/apt/lists/

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