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Old 11-03-2011, 06:21 PM
Simon McVittie
 
Default directory under /usr/bin -- Ok or not?

On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 at 22:58:38 +0400, Igor Pashev wrote:
> Isn't /usr/libexec for "internal use" exetutables?

In the GNU coding standards and on Red Hat-based distributions, yes; in the
FHS (and hence Debian), no. (libexec isn't specified by the FHS.)

S


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Old 11-03-2011, 07:09 PM
Yaroslav Halchenko
 
Default directory under /usr/bin -- Ok or not?

well -- correct but ...

,---
| http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#LIBLTQUALGTALTERNATEFORMATESSENTIAL
| /lib<qual> : Alternate format essential shared libraries (optional)
| Purpose
|
| There may be one or more variants of the /lib directory on systems which support more than one binary format requiring separate libraries. [14]
| Requirements
|
| If one or more of these directories exist, the requirements for their contents are the same as the normal /lib directory, except that /lib<qual>/cpp is not required. [15]
`---

discussion about having /lib/libexec in Debian has happened around 5-6 years
ago and it was agreed just to dump everything under the universal dump --
/usr/lib

On Thu, 03 Nov 2011, Simon McVittie wrote:
> > Isn't /usr/libexec for "internal use" exetutables?

> In the GNU coding standards and on Red Hat-based distributions, yes; in the
> FHS (and hence Debian), no. (libexec isn't specified by the FHS.)

--
=------------------------------------------------------------------=
Keep in touch www.onerussian.com
Yaroslav Halchenko www.ohloh.net/accounts/yarikoptic


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Old 11-03-2011, 07:47 PM
Ben Hutchings
 
Default directory under /usr/bin -- Ok or not?

On Thu, Nov 03, 2011 at 07:21:59PM +0000, Simon McVittie wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 at 22:58:38 +0400, Igor Pashev wrote:
> > Isn't /usr/libexec for "internal use" exetutables?
>
> In the GNU coding standards and on Red Hat-based distributions, yes; in the
> FHS (and hence Debian), no. (libexec isn't specified by the FHS.)

Is there any movement to fix this (by specifying /usr/libexec) now
that FHS is being updated?

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
We get into the habit of living before acquiring the habit of thinking.
- Albert Camus


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Old 11-03-2011, 07:57 PM
Michael Biebl
 
Default directory under /usr/bin -- Ok or not?

Am 03.11.2011 21:47, schrieb Ben Hutchings:
> On Thu, Nov 03, 2011 at 07:21:59PM +0000, Simon McVittie wrote:
>> On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 at 22:58:38 +0400, Igor Pashev wrote:
>>> Isn't /usr/libexec for "internal use" exetutables?
>>
>> In the GNU coding standards and on Red Hat-based distributions, yes; in the
>> FHS (and hence Debian), no. (libexec isn't specified by the FHS.)
>
> Is there any movement to fix this (by specifying /usr/libexec) now
> that FHS is being updated?

The 3.0 draft does contain /usr/libexec



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Old 11-04-2011, 07:00 PM
Stig Sandbeck Mathisen
 
Default directory under /usr/bin -- Ok or not?

Igor Pashev <pashev.igor@gmail.com> writes:

> Isn't /usr/libexec for "internal use" exetutables?

Other places, yes. Not in the FHS.

So, being halfway serious: Debian wants FHS to document it before we can
use it, and the FHS wants to document current practice. Clearly, we need
someone in the Fedora project to start using /usr/libexec first.

--
Stig Sandbeck Mathisen


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Old 11-04-2011, 07:46 PM
Josselin Mouette
 
Default directory under /usr/bin -- Ok or not?

Le vendredi 04 novembre 2011 Ă* 21:00 +0100, Stig Sandbeck Mathisen a
Ă©crit :
> So, being halfway serious: Debian wants FHS to document it before we can
> use it, and the FHS wants to document current practice. Clearly, we need
> someone in the Fedora project to start using /usr/libexec first.

I don’t think Debian requests FHS to document something before we can
use it. The real problem with the bizarre GNU invention that
is /usr/libexec is that nobody knows what it is here for.

--
.'`. Josselin Mouette
: :' :
`. `'
`-


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Old 11-04-2011, 08:21 PM
Ben Hutchings
 
Default directory under /usr/bin -- Ok or not?

On Fri, Nov 04, 2011 at 09:46:20PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le vendredi 04 novembre 2011 Ă* 21:00 +0100, Stig Sandbeck Mathisen a
> Ă©crit :
> > So, being halfway serious: Debian wants FHS to document it before we can
> > use it, and the FHS wants to document current practice. Clearly, we need
> > someone in the Fedora project to start using /usr/libexec first.
>
> I don’t think Debian requests FHS to document something before we can
> use it. The real problem with the bizarre GNU invention that
> is /usr/libexec is that nobody knows what it is here for.

It's not a GNU invention; I believe it derives from BSD. On a real
FreeBSD system (not the Debian mash-up) it contains:

atrun lint1 rpc.rusersd
bootpd lint2 rpc.rwalld
bootpgw locate.bigram rpc.sprayd
catman.local locate.code rshd
cc1 locate.concatdb save-entropy
cc1obj locate.mklocatedb sendmail
cc1plus locate.updatedb sftp-server
comsat lpr sm.bin
fingerd mail.local smrsh
ftpd make_index ssh-keysign
getty makewhatis.local ssh-pkcs11-helper
hprop mknetid tcpd
hpropd ntalkd telnetd
ipropd-master phttpget tftp-proxy
ipropd-slave pppoed tftpd
kadmind rbootd vfontedpr
kcm revnetgroup yppwupdate
kdc rlogind ypxfr
kpasswdd rpc.rquotad
ld-elf.so.1 rpc.rstatd

Very little of that is related to GNU. Apparently it's for executables
that don't belong in the path (rarely used from interactive shells or
scripts).

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
We get into the habit of living before acquiring the habit of thinking.
- Albert Camus


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Old 11-04-2011, 08:28 PM
Clint Adams
 
Default directory under /usr/bin -- Ok or not?

On Fri, Nov 04, 2011 at 09:46:20PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> I don’t think Debian requests FHS to document something before we can
> use it. The real problem with the bizarre GNU invention that
> is /usr/libexec is that nobody knows what it is here for.

Allegedly it was going to be in the FHS but a couple of Debian
loudmouths whined until it was omitted for no good reason.


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Old 11-05-2011, 04:59 AM
Miles Bader
 
Default directory under /usr/bin -- Ok or not?

Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> writes:
>> I don’t think Debian requests FHS to document something before we can
>> use it. The real problem with the bizarre GNU invention that
>> is /usr/libexec is that nobody knows what it is here for.
>
> It's not a GNU invention; I believe it derives from BSD.

Yes, it originally came from BSD. Seems to make good sense too.

-Miles

--
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Old 11-05-2011, 03:51 PM
Ian Jackson
 
Default directory under /usr/bin -- Ok or not?

Clint Adams writes ("Re: directory under /usr/bin -- Ok or not?"):
> On Fri, Nov 04, 2011 at 09:46:20PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > I don?t think Debian requests FHS to document something before we can
> > use it. The real problem with the bizarre GNU invention that
> > is /usr/libexec is that nobody knows what it is here for.
>
> Allegedly it was going to be in the FHS but a couple of Debian
> loudmouths whined until it was omitted for no good reason.

As one of those loudmouths:

1. There is still no good reason for libexec.

2. Obviously the right answer with a standardisation decision you
don't like is to wait until (a) it's implemented everywhere and
(b) the people you originally disagreed with have moved on to other
things, and then to change the standard to be the way you always
wanted it to be.

Ian.


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