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Old 10-01-2011, 12:29 AM
Yaroslav Halchenko
 
Default Greaat disappointment

Hi Qactuar,

NB: crossposting to debian-devel since my question below is Debian
developers oriented

sad to hear that you had such a displeasure... as an excuse I can only
say that it is not necessarily that people who "advised" you on the IRC
channels you have tried -- are the ones who "develop" Debian. Chat
rooms are open to anyone to participate so YMMV, so if I were you I
would be more careful on the judgments about the project. As far as
installation goes -- it should have been quite straightforward having
you chosen official images/instructions from
http://www.debian.org/distrib/ and just following questions of Debian
installation process which gives you options to facilitate installation
of Debian in your scenario. If something doesn't work -- then
please state what was not...

BUT your unfortunate experience lead me to actual question now: why
http://irc.debian.org leads to a webpage which visually seems to have
nothing with Debian in its appearance? I understand that it leads to
OFTC servers, but indeed it might be confusing for newcomers. Could we
ask for a VirtualHost entry for "irc.debian.org" with few simple
pages so we have adequate appearance/description ?

Cheers,

On Sat, 01 Oct 2011, Qactuar Rogue wrote:

> Hi.
> I was planning on installing Debian on a new laptop that had Windows 7
> pre-installed.
> I was researching the methods of installation for two weeks
> (partitioning etc).
> Then right before beginning the disk wipe and later the installation
> I had problems deciding on my own for what kind of partition table to
> create
> and wanted to have feedback from somebody who has a comprehensive
> understanding on the subject.
> I went on IRC. Firstly I tried #Debian on irc.debian.org then I tried
> #Debian at chat.freenode.com
> I would like to express my greatest disappointment regarding the
> `helpfulness` of the people on the channel.
> On irc.debian.org everyone was a complete dumbass. On both channels I
> was told off for asking my questions by PMing someone
> who replied to my posting on the channel. My nick was Ti-chan. You can
> research if you please.
> I did nothing, just kindly asked for help regarding partitioning.
> In a community that is supposed to stand for friendship and kindness,
> on a channel that is there for helping people
> who choose Linux as an alternative, having people behave with you so
> unkindly is a shame.
> I still want Linux. I hate Windows. Microsoft is a disgusting
> transnational organization.
> I do not want Debian anymore however. I do not wish to use software
> developed by those
> people who are surfing on your IRC channels, thank you very much.
> I also considered investing into the Debian project by donating
> millions of dollars.
> To help the creation of software which can effectively conquer the
> popularity of Windows,
> A software which reaches most end users and helps them understand the
> pros of Linux and the cons of Windows.
> So that the computing world is reformed and pulled out of the shit it
> is currently deep in.
> I chose Debian because it is a community driven development project.
> Free of the idiotic marketing strategies and instability of other
> distributions.
> I would be most grateful if this message reached one of your key
> people.
> I do not understand how such negative experiences can happen to anybody
> in the Linux world.
> As a human being I am truly ashamed for such unkind people and as a
> denizen of this planet I am outraged
> that entire projects can slip because of people`s bad experience with
> Linux.
> Nobody can be surprised that most home users go for Windows. Many bad
> things can be said about
> Microsoft but they at least have the obligation of keeping an effective
> customer support service up and going.
> Thanks for reading my random ramble mortal.
> You may return to your duties.
> We may hear of each other again. I may consider creating my own
> foundation for an all new OS.
> Friendly greetings,
> TAKA

--
=------------------------------------------------------------------=
Keep in touch www.onerussian.com
Yaroslav Halchenko www.ohloh.net/accounts/yarikoptic


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Old 10-01-2011, 12:33 AM
Arno Töll
 
Default Greaat disappointment

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FTR: http://paste.debian.net/133330/

- --
with kind regards,
Arno Töll
IRC: daemonkeeper on Freenode/OFTC
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Old 10-01-2011, 06:04 AM
Russell Coker
 
Default Greaat disappointment

On Sat, 1 Oct 2011, Yaroslav Halchenko <debian@onerussian.com> wrote:
> > I also considered investing into the Debian project by donating
> > millions of dollars.
> > To help the creation of software which can effectively conquer the
> > popularity of Windows,
[...]
> > We may hear of each other again. I may consider creating my own
> > foundation for an all new OS.

The quality of support on IRC varies. That said when you join #Debian the
Topic includes "/msg bots NOT people" which is pretty clear for anyone who
knows IRC well. It would be good if http://deb.li/IRCFAQ also included this
in a longer form for people who aren't into IRC.

Finally this "I was going to be a big customer" line is commonly used by
dissatisfied people. Making up exaggerated claims isn't going to make us take
him seriously. The number of people who falsely claim to be millionaires
vastly outnumbers the number of real millionaires - many of whom don't tell
people how much money they have for obvious reasons. That sort of thing is
just annoying.

In any case I think we should welcome forks, any fork has to be under a
compatible license, therefore we can incorporate changes if they are
beneficial. So if he is a millionaire then creating another Canonical would
be a good thing to do, it's not as if Debian needs the money, it seems that we
always have a lot of money and not that much to spend it on.

On Sat, 1 Oct 2011, Arno Töll <debian@toell.net> wrote:
> FTR: http://paste.debian.net/133330/

Yes, calling people "dumbass" is a good way to not get your question answered.
Another is to make ageist aspersions, there are more than a few Linux experts
who are less than 14yo. The youngest person to give a presentation at LCA was
13 at the time - someone who can get their talk accepted by one of the most
prestigious Linux conferences can probably answer IRC questions better than
most people...


As an aside, is there any good paid Linux answer service? When someone who
has millions of dollars to spend but who can't get along with IRC people then
it would surely be better for them to pay someone to answer their question.

My past experience is that when one of my clients wants to pay a DD $100US by
PayPal they get quality advice, assistance, and on occasion new features at
fairly short notice. Speaking for myself a message saying "please answer the
following question ASAP for $100 by PayPal" will really get my attention.

--
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/


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Old 10-01-2011, 05:04 PM
Christian Brenner
 
Default Greaat disappointment

Hello Mr. Halchenko,

with all due respect, do you think a statement like the following is a
good start if you ask someone for help?

"Hi. Could someone who has a remotely comprehensive understanding of
partitioning and is not a complete dumbass help me out?"

I mean, a certain amount of respect would be nice. Also, they tried to
point out, what you did wrong and you went straight ahead:

"OK. If here is anyone over the age of 14 AND you know about
partitioning, please help me out. I need help. That is why I came here."

Next time, please think about you statement when you ask someone for
your help.

Have a nice day,
Christian
 
Old 10-01-2011, 09:31 PM
Christian Brenner
 
Default Greaat disappointment

Hello Mr. Halchenko,

I have to apologize to you for my last mail. It seems my mind was
wandering somewhere else. As Mr. Biebl, was pointing out, you only
responded to the initial mail.

Sorry again,
Christian
 

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