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Old 02-17-2008, 07:11 PM
"Milan P. Stanic"
 
Default Request for comment: a new software to manage linux networking features

On Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 11:20:48PM +0700, namnd wrote:
> * The configuration file is in XML so netupdown can handle sophisticated
> configuration. Editing the XML the configuration by hand or by software
> will be easy and comfortable.

Editing XML by hand "easy and comfortable"?!?

In which world?

Best regards


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Old 02-18-2008, 04:49 AM
martin f krafft
 
Default Request for comment: a new software to manage linux networking features

also sprach namnd <namnd@fpt.com.vn> [2008.02.17.1720 +0100]:
> My team have been developing a software for my company since 2004,
> now I have plan to release it to the public, hopefully in an open
> source license if the management board doesn't object. So I need
> the peer reviews from the community of the quality of the
> software […]

Hello Nam,

I am the author of netconf (http://netconf.alioth.debian.org), which
Brian has already introduced in another post to this thread. I am
very interested in your work because all the issues you highlight in
your mail are core to my motivations for writing netconf.

You are asking us to evaluate the quality of a software based only
on the descriptions you provide. This is really difficult. While
others have picked up on shortcomings, such as the use of XML,
I wonder about certain other things:

- what language are you using?
- is this a daemon-based design?
- how much internal state do you keep?
- how extensible is the software?
- how large is the code base?
- how do you interface with e.g. openvpn? Do you wrap it (and thus
limit the possible configuration), or do you feedthrough to it
(and thus provide the full configuration abilities)?
- does your software handle wireless networks, including those
configured by wpa_supplicant?

I think it's always a good idea to release software to the public.
As such, I encourage you to convince your management to slap a good
licence onto your work.

On the other hand, you and your team may also be interested in
netconf. You surely have a lot of experience in the domain, and
netconf could greatly benefit from your input. While netupdown seems
designed to override shortcomings in ifupdown, netconf aims to fix
those at the root.

netconf is currently implemented in Python, but that only really
makes it easier for others to read the code and contribute to it.
Unfortunately, netconf is not yet ready for use, but it's not very
far either.

Please release your software to the public and then consider joining
the netconf team and getting your colleagues interested too. We can
then reuse your work on netupdown and integrate it into netconf to
add advanced network configuration abilities to Debian by default!

--
.'`. martin f. krafft <madduck@debian.org>
: :' : proud Debian developer, author, administrator, and user
`. `'` http://people.debian.org/~madduck - http://debiansystem.info
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems

there is no place like ~
 
Old 02-18-2008, 06:38 AM
Yves-Alexis Perez
 
Default Request for comment: a new software to manage linux networking features

On lun, 2008-02-18 at 06:49 +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> You are asking us to evaluate the quality of a software based only
> on the descriptions you provide.

There was a link to the source code in the initial mail too.

Cheers,
--
Yves-Alexis
 
Old 02-18-2008, 06:43 AM
martin f krafft
 
Default Request for comment: a new software to manage linux networking features

also sprach namnd <namnd@fpt.com.vn> [2008.02.18.0750 +0100]:
> - I have posted a full example of internal state on the first email.
> Runtime state contains info about interfaces, about networks running on
> those interfaces, routes running on those networks, and multipath routes
> using the available routes.

This is one of the reasons why I started netconf: stateful
configuration is really bad because it's very difficult to keep the
stored state and the real world in sync. netconf tries to have
minimal state only, which makes it quite a challenge. However,
I think it's worth it. Anyone who has been told by ifup that the
interface is already configured when it in fact is not knows what
I mean. This is a simple example, but it's an important thing to
realise.

>> - how large is the code base?
>>
> Very compact, about 1500 lines in Perl, other stuff doesn't count.

I really want to look at it, even though I am bad at Perl. Please
try to release it. I am tempted to ask you to show it to me
beforehand under a non-disclosure agreement, but then I might have
difficulty keeping netconf clean, so I'd much rather have you open
the code.

> I generate configuration file for them from specified template,
> and run the daemons (pppd, openvpn, vtun, ...) with the newly
> generated configuration file. Full configuration abilities are
> guranteed.

I am interested in knowing more about how you do this. For instance,
how would you add a ccd profile to the openvpn configuration, or an
iroute, or a hook?

> I agree. But it will take some effort so I will only try to release it if
> some conditions are met:
> - It attracts enough developers
> - The quality is good, so it is worthy to continue developing

This cannot be answered in advance, you'll have to try it.

> There is a challenge here, until Larry Wall does some breakthrough
> with his perl6, I don't know how Perl developers and Python
> developers can code together

I think with enough maturity, they can.

Python is really easy to work with. I tried Perl a couple of times
and it's just very complex. Thus, I went down the Python route and
have never looked back. However, I find it very difficult to work on
Perl projects, such as ikiwiki. I would like to, and I don't have
anything against Perl (nothing religious anyway), but it's just
a very steep learning curve I cannot climb at the moment for lack of
time. I still argue that Python doesn't have this learning curve, so
it should be a lot easier for Perl people to work on Python, than
the other way around.

--
.'`. martin f. krafft <madduck@debian.org>
: :' : proud Debian developer, author, administrator, and user
`. `'` http://people.debian.org/~madduck - http://debiansystem.info
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems

always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.
 
Old 02-18-2008, 06:46 AM
martin f krafft
 
Default Request for comment: a new software to manage linux networking features

also sprach martin f krafft <madduck@debian.org> [2008.02.18.0843 +0100]:
> I really want to look at it, even though I am bad at Perl. Please
> try to release it. I am tempted to ask you to show it to me
> beforehand under a non-disclosure agreement, but then I might have
> difficulty keeping netconf clean, so I'd much rather have you open
> the code.

Ah, thanks to Yves, I found the code. I am still not going to look
at it before you make a clear statement about the licence because
otherwise it might infiltrate how I write netconf code and we'll
open a can of worms...

--
.'`. martin f. krafft <madduck@debian.org>
: :' : proud Debian developer, author, administrator, and user
`. `'` http://people.debian.org/~madduck - http://debiansystem.info
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems

"if I can't dance, i don't want to be part of your revolution."
- emma goldman
 

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