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Old 08-23-2011, 12:35 AM
 
Default emacs on a text console - please help me overcome the shock

>>>>> "r" == rdiezmail-emacs <rdiezmail-emacs@yahoo.de> writes:
r> The console mode has been a shock. There is no mouse at all. I cannot
r> navigate the menus as usual, menu-bar-open is weird and unfriendly.
r> But, worst of all, some key combinations do not work well.
But that's the way it must be here on Debian, if you are root.
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=633652
My question is how do all those high powered Debian Developers cope?
Don't tell me they don't use emacs.
Or not as root.
Not even
when
administering their system?


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Old 08-23-2011, 12:52 AM
Kenyon Ralph
 
Default emacs on a text console - please help me overcome the shock

On 2011-08-23T08:35:58+0800, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
> >>>>> "r" == rdiezmail-emacs <rdiezmail-emacs@yahoo.de> writes:
> r> The console mode has been a shock. There is no mouse at all. I cannot
> r> navigate the menus as usual, menu-bar-open is weird and unfriendly.
> r> But, worst of all, some key combinations do not work well.
> But that's the way it must be here on Debian, if you are root.
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=633652
> My question is how do all those high powered Debian Developers cope?
> Don't tell me they don't use emacs.
> Or not as root.
> Not even
> when
> administering their system?

I use emacs under X to administer my Debian systems. I don't run it as
root though. I use emacs TRAMP to use sudo to edit files as root on
the local machine. On remote machines I do the same but in an ssh
session in xterm (I don't use mouse or menu bars in emacs in X
anyway).

Looking at bug 633652, have you tried running X programs as root with
sux or gksu instead of su? http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/sux
http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/gksu

--
Kenyon Ralph
 
Old 08-23-2011, 01:14 AM
 
Default emacs on a text console - please help me overcome the shock

>>>>> "KR" == Kenyon Ralph <kenyon@kenyonralph.com> writes:
KR> I use emacs under X to administer my Debian systems. I don't run it as
KR> root though. I use emacs TRAMP to use sudo to edit files as root on
KR> the local machine. On remote machines I do the same but in an ssh
KR> session in xterm (I don't use mouse or menu bars in emacs in X
KR> anyway).
I'm a safe sex fan myself, however there are limits to how much I am
willing to sacrifice that raw feel.

KR> Looking at bug 633652, have you tried running X programs as root with
KR> sux or gksu instead of su? http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/sux
KR> http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/gksu

Mmmm, sounds kinky, but at my age I don't think we can teach this old
dog new tricks. But I suppose that's what the younger generation will
use and just mark this bug wontfix. Alas, no family values.


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Old 08-23-2011, 01:18 AM
Bill MacAllister
 
Default emacs on a text console - please help me overcome the shock

--On Tuesday, August 23, 2011 08:35:58 AM +0800 jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:


"r" == rdiezmail-emacs <rdiezmail-emacs@yahoo.de> writes:

r> The console mode has been a shock. There is no mouse at all. I cannot
r> navigate the menus as usual, menu-bar-open is weird and unfriendly.
r> But, worst of all, some key combinations do not work well.
But that's the way it must be here on Debian, if you are root.
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=633652
My question is how do all those high powered Debian Developers cope?
Don't tell me they don't use emacs.
Or not as root.
Not even
when
administering their system?


If you are truly using the console then it is likely that some of the
issues have nothing to do with emacs and everything to do with the
console terminal emulation. At a base level emacs is depending on
escape sequences to move the cursor around, but I expect it is doing
a lot fancier things that only a good terminal emulator will keep up
with. And I would add that I don't really want anyone working on
improving console terminal emulation---there are too many other things
to do that need to be done and no one spends much time on the console
these days.

As a side note I really hate modal editors like vi and its decendents,
but I know enough of it to be able to work on consoles when emacs is
not installed yet or the terminal emulation is not up to it. It is
just part of managing the system in my view.

Finally, when I am editing text I find that a mouse slows everything
down. I do just fine with character cell xterms and no mouse. I do
think it is worth getting color to work when possible. The syntax
highlighting helps me spot stupid errors early.

Bill

--

Bill MacAllister
Infrastructure Delivery Group, Stanford University


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Old 08-23-2011, 08:00 AM
Toby Speight
 
Default emacs on a text console - please help me overcome the shock

>>>>> "r" == rdiezmail-emacs <rdiezmail-emacs@yahoo.de> writes:
r> The console mode has been a shock. There is no mouse at all. I
r> cannot navigate the menus as usual, menu-bar-open is weird and
r> unfriendly. But, worst of all, some key combinations do not work
r> well.


0> In article <87ty99otg1.fsf@jidanni.org>,
0> jidanni <URL:mailto:jidanni@jidanni.org> ("Jidanni") wrote:

Jidanni> My question is how do all those high powered Debian Developers
Jidanni> cope? Don't tell me they don't use emacs. Or not as root.
Jidanni> Not even when administering their system?


I certainly avoid running programs as large and extensible as emacs when
I'm root! And, generally, all X11 programs fall into that category.

As previously mentioned, Tramp is the ultimate saviour for editing files
as many users on many systems.

If you feel you must run as root, and you want to use a mouse with emacs
in XTerm, then xterm-mouse-mode may help:

/--------
| xterm-mouse-mode is an interactive autoloaded Lisp function in `xt-mouse'.
| (xterm-mouse-mode &optional arg)
|
| Toggle XTerm mouse mode.
| With prefix arg, turn XTerm mouse mode on if arg is positive, otherwise
| turn it off.
|
| Turn it on to use Emacs mouse commands, and off to use xterm mouse
| commands. This works in terminal emulators compatible with xterm. It
| only works for simple uses of the mouse. Basically, only non-modified
| single clicks are supported. When turned on, the normal xterm mouse
| functionality for such clicks is still available by holding down the
| SHIFT key while pressing the mouse button.
--------


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Old 08-23-2011, 08:17 AM
Bastien ROUCARIES
 
Default emacs on a text console - please help me overcome the shock

On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 3:14 AM, <jidanni@jidanni.org> wrote:
>>>>>> "KR" == Kenyon Ralph <kenyon@kenyonralph.com> writes:
> KR> I use emacs under X to administer my Debian systems. I don't run it as
> KR> root though. I use emacs TRAMP to use sudo to edit files as root on
> KR> the local machine. On remote machines I do the same but in an ssh
> KR> session in xterm (I don't use mouse or menu bars in emacs in X
> KR> anyway).
> I'm a safe sex fan myself, however there are limits to how much I am
> willing to sacrifice that raw feel.
>
> KR> Looking at bug 633652, have you tried running X programs as root with
> KR> sux or gksu instead of su? http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/sux
> KR> http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/gksu
>
> Mmmm, sounds kinky, but at my age I don't think we can teach this old
> dog new tricks. But I suppose that's what the younger generation will
> use and just mark this bug wontfix. Alas, no family values.

Yes sux work with both emacs and firefox

And for middle ages dog (not oldtimer) they are the ssh -X root@localhost trick

Bastien


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Old 08-23-2011, 09:31 AM
Cyril Brulebois
 
Default emacs on a text console - please help me overcome the shock

Bastien ROUCARIES <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com> (23/08/2011):
> And for middle ages dog (not oldtimer) they are the ssh -X root@localhost trick

or: sudo XAUTHORITY=~/.Xauthority wireshark

Mraw,
KiBi.
 
Old 08-23-2011, 11:56 AM
"Alan D. Salewski"
 
Default emacs on a text console - please help me overcome the shock

On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 09:00:25AM +0100, Toby Speight spake thus:
> >>>>> "r" == rdiezmail-emacs <rdiezmail-emacs@yahoo.de> writes:
> r> The console mode has been a shock. There is no mouse at all. I
> r> cannot navigate the menus as usual, menu-bar-open is weird and
> r> unfriendly. But, worst of all, some key combinations do not work
> r> well.
>
>
> 0> In article <87ty99otg1.fsf@jidanni.org>,
> 0> jidanni <URL:mailto:jidanni@jidanni.org> ("Jidanni") wrote:
>
> Jidanni> My question is how do all those high powered Debian Developers
> Jidanni> cope? Don't tell me they don't use emacs. Or not as root.
> Jidanni> Not even when administering their system?
>
>
> I certainly avoid running programs as large and extensible as emacs when
> I'm root! And, generally, all X11 programs fall into that category.
>
> As previously mentioned, Tramp is the ultimate saviour for editing files
> as many users on many systems.
*snip*

Just to elaborate a bit on the emacs TRAMP recommendations, which I
think are good.

With TRAMP you can sidestep the issues of running emacs in console mode
on the remote host and running emacs as root on the remote host.

Since you've already got an emacs running under X as your normal user
account on your local machine, you can, from within that emacs,
find-file (C-x C-f) a tramp filename that will cause emacs to:

* tunnel (via ssh or whatever) to an arbitrary remote host
* login under a normal user account there, then
* su to root at "localhost", and then be
* editing a file as root on that remote host

The buffer text you are manipulating will be on your local machine, so
editing will be as fast as editing local files. You'll notice lag, of
course, when you save (C-x C-s).

The TRAMP section of the emacs manual has more, including examples; you
would want to give special attention to the "Multi-hops" section.

HTH,
-Al

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
a l a n d. s a l e w s k i salewski@att.net
1024D/FA2C3588 EDFA 195F EDF1 0933 1002 6396 7C92 5CB3 FA2C 3588
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Old 08-23-2011, 05:24 PM
 
Default emacs on a text console - please help me overcome the shock

I am now officially pleased with sux, enabling me to use X programs as
root despite http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=633652 .
Thanks everybody. Have a song,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLtzQXTHiqk&list=PL38C412C876528CCB


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Old 08-23-2011, 05:43 PM
PJ Weisberg
 
Default emacs on a text console - please help me overcome the shock

On Tuesday, August 23, 2011, Toby Speight <T.M.Speight.90@cantab.net> wrote:

> If you feel you must run as root, and you want to use a mouse with emacs
> in XTerm, then xterm-mouse-mode may help:


If you feel you must run Emacs as root, you probably want "sudoedit" instead.

--

-PJ
 

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