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debian 07-25-2011 10:35 PM

Providing official virtualisation images of Debian
 
On 7/25/2011 6:27 PM, Moritz Mühlenhoff wrote:

Hi,
I believe it's high time we start to providing Debian in form of official
virtualisation images. In contrast to the ISOs currently provided it
allows a quicker evaluation/testing of Debian (and can also be very
useful for testing (e.g. someone wrote on debian-release that he doesn't have
access to oldstable/stable systems, with prepared virtualisation
images that would no longer be an issue). For many setups this could even
replace the installer since software selection and hostname can easily
be tweaked post-install.

I think it's sufficient for starters to provide images for stable
(they can be updated for every few point updates if needed).

What virtualisation solutions should be supported?
- Virtual Box seems like a natural candidate since it's free and
included since Squeeze.
- Vmware has a significant installed base and is relevant, although
proprietary
- Microsoft Virtual PC is likely also needed
- Qemu
- Citrix XenServer?



For now I would recommend against pre-configured Citrix XenServer
releases. I am a Citrix CCNA and I would not recommend that for this
very reason. Debian is best set up in Citrix Xenserver from scratch.
As far as VMware goes, I use that at home all the time. And with the
freely available VMWare Player, I make virtualized Debian installs
available to them all the time.



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Michael Gilbert 07-25-2011 10:43 PM

Providing official virtualisation images of Debian
 
Moritz Mühlenhoff wrote:
> Do people think this is relevant and are willing to work on providing
> one of the images? If so, we could arrange a BoF at DebConf.

Moritz,

I just want to say that I think its an awesome idea. I'm not at
debconf, but I may try to find time to help if something gets going.

Best wishes,
Mike


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Lars Wirzenius 07-25-2011 10:46 PM

Providing official virtualisation images of Debian
 
On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 12:27:09AM +0200, Moritz Mühlenhoff wrote:
> What virtualisation solutions should be supported?
> - Virtual Box seems like a natural candidate since it's free and
> included since Squeeze.
> - Vmware has a significant installed base and is relevant, although
> proprietary
> - Microsoft Virtual PC is likely also needed
> - Qemu
> - Citrix XenServer?

You don't mention KVM explicitly (it's almost identical to Qemu,
but fast), or Xen. Anyway, qemu-img can convert a raw disk image
into many other formats. So you generate one raw image, and then
convert it to any other formats using qemu-img.

> How should the images be generated?

vmdebootstrap --image=debian-squeeze.img --size=4G
--mirror=http://cdn.debian.net/debian --distribution=squeeze
--enable-dhcp --root-password=password1 --user=tomjon/password
--hostname=squeezebox --package=gnome

That should get you started. Vary the packages as you wish, and
see also the --customize option for futher tweaking.

(vmdebootstrap is not in Debian at this time, but see
http://liw.fi/vmdebootstrap/ for the home page, and help with
packaging if you start using it, please.)

It would probably be nice to have a debian-installer based way to
generate the images, so they're as close to a real, installed system
as possible, but vmdebootstrap (or one of the other similar tools)
will do in a pinch.

> IMO the images would need to be created by a DD

IMHO, if the project will provide them, then they should be run
via cronjobs (or triggered by uploads) on a suitable project machine.

> Do people think this is relevant and are willing to work on providing
> one of the images? If so, we could arrange a BoF at DebConf.

I'm not at Debconf, but you may want to talk to Tom Marble or
Zack-the-DPL, who are hosting a BoF on automated testing, which
may include some image generation as a side-effect.

I'll note that for distribution, offering zsync is probably a
good idea: an updated image is going to be almost identical to
the previous version of the image, so zsync should save a lot of
bandwidth, but does not require running an rsync server.

Happy hacking.

--
Freedom-based blog/wiki/web hosting: http://www.branchable.com/


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Karl Goetz 07-25-2011 11:24 PM

Providing official virtualisation images of Debian
 
On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 00:27:09 +0200
Moritz Mühlenhoff <jmm@inutil.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> I believe it's high time we start to providing Debian in form of
> official virtualisation images. In contrast to the ISOs currently

I'd certainly find qemu-kvm images handy, Problem might be with the
amount of space on the host used by (free space) in the images.

> I think it's sufficient for starters to provide images for stable
> (they can be updated for every few point updates if needed).
>
> What virtualisation solutions should be supported?

> - Vmware has a significant installed base and is relevant, although
> proprietary
> - Microsoft Virtual PC is likely also needed
> - Citrix XenServer?

Would this require the Debian project to go out and buy various bits of
proprietary software to build the images with?
thanks,
kk

--
Karl Goetz, (Kamping_Kaiser / VK5FOSS)
Debian contributor / gNewSense Maintainer
http://www.kgoetz.id.au
No, I won't join your social networking group

Tony Godshall 07-26-2011 12:00 AM

Providing official virtualisation images of Debian
 
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 4:24 PM, Karl Goetz <karl@kgoetz.id.au> wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 00:27:09 +0200
> Moritz Mühlenhoff <jmm@inutil.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I believe it's high time we start to providing Debian in form of
>> official virtualisation images. In contrast to the ISOs currently
>
> I'd certainly find qemu-kvm images handy, Problem might be with the
> amount of space on the host used by (free space) in the images.

Use qcow2 disk format.

>> I think it's sufficient for starters to provide images for stable
>> (they can be updated for every few point updates if needed).
>>
>> What virtualisation solutions should be supported?
>
>> - Vmware has a significant installed base and is relevant, although
>> * proprietary
>> - Microsoft Virtual PC is likely also needed
>> - Citrix XenServer?
>
> Would this require the Debian project to go out and buy various bits of
> proprietary software to build the images with?

Of course Debian should not provide images in proprietary
formats any more than it distributes non-free software.

Proprietary vendors should be able to convert from open formats.

Of course qemu-img/kvm-img does support this per its manpage:
"vmdk"
VMware 3 and 4 compatible image format.

Tony


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Yves-Alexis Perez 07-26-2011 06:49 AM

Providing official virtualisation images of Debian
 
On mar., 2011-07-26 at 00:27 +0200, Moritz Mühlenhoff wrote:
> I believe it's high time we start to providing Debian in form of official
> virtualisation images. In contrast to the ISOs currently provided it
> allows a quicker evaluation/testing of Debian (and can also be very
> useful for testing (e.g. someone wrote on debian-release that he doesn't have
> access to oldstable/stable systems, with prepared virtualisation
> images that would no longer be an issue). For many setups this could even
> replace the installer since software selection and hostname can easily
> be tweaked post-install.

Not completely relevant, but note that Aurélien Jarno provides Squeeze
images for various architectures under qemu at
http://people.debian.org/~aurel32/qemu/

Regards,
--
Yves-Alexis

Lucas Nussbaum 07-26-2011 07:28 AM

Providing official virtualisation images of Debian
 
On 26/07/11 at 00:27 +0200, Moritz Mühlenhoff wrote:
> Hi,
> I believe it's high time we start to providing Debian in form of official
> virtualisation images. In contrast to the ISOs currently provided it
> allows a quicker evaluation/testing of Debian (and can also be very
> useful for testing (e.g. someone wrote on debian-release that he doesn't have
> access to oldstable/stable systems, with prepared virtualisation
> images that would no longer be an issue). For many setups this could even
> replace the installer since software selection and hostname can easily
> be tweaked post-install.
>
> I think it's sufficient for starters to provide images for stable
> (they can be updated for every few point updates if needed).
>
> What virtualisation solutions should be supported?
> - Virtual Box seems like a natural candidate since it's free and
> included since Squeeze.
> - Vmware has a significant installed base and is relevant, although
> proprietary
> - Microsoft Virtual PC is likely also needed
> - Qemu
> - Citrix XenServer?

- images for cloud infrastructures (AMI -- Amazon Machine Image)

L.


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"Olivier B." 07-26-2011 07:53 AM

Providing official virtualisation images of Debian
 
Le 26/07/2011 09:28, Lucas Nussbaum a écrit :

On 26/07/11 at 00:27 +0200, Moritz Mühlenhoff wrote:

Hi,
I believe it's high time we start to providing Debian in form of official
virtualisation images. In contrast to the ISOs currently provided it
allows a quicker evaluation/testing of Debian (and can also be very
useful for testing (e.g. someone wrote on debian-release that he doesn't have
access to oldstable/stable systems, with prepared virtualisation
images that would no longer be an issue). For many setups this could even
replace the installer since software selection and hostname can easily
be tweaked post-install.

I think it's sufficient for starters to provide images for stable
(they can be updated for every few point updates if needed).

What virtualisation solutions should be supported?
- Virtual Box seems like a natural candidate since it's free and
included since Squeeze.
- Vmware has a significant installed base and is relevant, although
proprietary
- Microsoft Virtual PC is likely also needed
- Qemu
- Citrix XenServer?


- images for cloud infrastructures (AMI -- Amazon Machine Image)



+1

I would love to have an official Debian Image for Amazon and other cloud
infrastructures.



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Andrey Rahmatullin 07-26-2011 07:53 AM

Providing official virtualisation images of Debian
 
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 11:46:47PM +0100, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
> Anyway, qemu-img can convert a raw disk image
> into many other formats. So you generate one raw image, and then
> convert it to any other formats using qemu-img.
Also, according to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_disk_image#Virtual_disk_formats
majority of solutions support "vpc VirtualPC compatible image format
(VHD)." and "vmdk VMware 3 and 4 compatible image format."

--
WBR, wRAR

Olivier Bonvalet 07-26-2011 07:53 AM

Providing official virtualisation images of Debian
 
Le 26/07/2011 09:28, Lucas Nussbaum a écrit :

On 26/07/11 at 00:27 +0200, Moritz Mühlenhoff wrote:

Hi,
I believe it's high time we start to providing Debian in form of official
virtualisation images. In contrast to the ISOs currently provided it
allows a quicker evaluation/testing of Debian (and can also be very
useful for testing (e.g. someone wrote on debian-release that he doesn't have
access to oldstable/stable systems, with prepared virtualisation
images that would no longer be an issue). For many setups this could even
replace the installer since software selection and hostname can easily
be tweaked post-install.

I think it's sufficient for starters to provide images for stable
(they can be updated for every few point updates if needed).

What virtualisation solutions should be supported?
- Virtual Box seems like a natural candidate since it's free and
included since Squeeze.
- Vmware has a significant installed base and is relevant, although
proprietary
- Microsoft Virtual PC is likely also needed
- Qemu
- Citrix XenServer?


- images for cloud infrastructures (AMI -- Amazon Machine Image)



+1

I would love to have an official Debian Image for Amazon and other cloud
infrastructures.



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