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Old 05-26-2011, 08:05 PM
Benjamin Drung
 
Default packaging-dev meta package

Hi,

A few days ago, we had a discussion in Ubuntu about a packaging-dev meta
package. The problem is that users have to install a bunch of packages
if they want to dive into packaging. Even some packagers get annoyed
when they need to turn a newly installed system into a packaging
environment. The solution would be a meta package that depends on the
commonly used packages for packaging.

As a starting point packaging-dev would depend on

build-essential
quilt
debhelper
cmake
autoconf
cdbs
bzr-builddeb
apt-file
ubuntu-dev-tools (only on Ubuntu systems)

Do you like the idea or not? Do you have a better name for the meta
package? Should something added to or removed from the dependency list?

--
Benjamin Drung
Debian & Ubuntu Developer
 
Old 05-26-2011, 08:25 PM
Fernando Lemos
 
Default packaging-dev meta package

On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Benjamin Drung <bdrung@debian.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> A few days ago, we had a discussion in Ubuntu about a packaging-dev meta
> package. The problem is that users have to install a bunch of packages
> if they want to dive into packaging. Even some packagers get annoyed
> when they need to turn a newly installed system into a packaging
> environment. The solution would be a meta package that depends on the
> commonly used packages for packaging.

Isn't apt-get build-dep enough? Users can always use equivs for
something more specific.

Regards,


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Old 05-26-2011, 08:29 PM
Benjamin Drung
 
Default packaging-dev meta package

Am Donnerstag, den 26.05.2011, 17:25 -0300 schrieb Fernando Lemos:
> On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Benjamin Drung <bdrung@debian.org> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > A few days ago, we had a discussion in Ubuntu about a packaging-dev meta
> > package. The problem is that users have to install a bunch of packages
> > if they want to dive into packaging. Even some packagers get annoyed
> > when they need to turn a newly installed system into a packaging
> > environment. The solution would be a meta package that depends on the
> > commonly used packages for packaging.
>
> Isn't apt-get build-dep enough? Users can always use equivs for
> something more specific.

apt-get build-dep gets the build dependency for a specific package, but
it wont give you devscripts for example.

--
Benjamin Drung
Debian & Ubuntu Developer
 
Old 05-26-2011, 08:33 PM
Mackenzie Morgan
 
Default packaging-dev meta package

On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Benjamin Drung <bdrung@debian.org> wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, den 26.05.2011, 17:25 -0300 schrieb Fernando Lemos:
>> On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Benjamin Drung <bdrung@debian.org> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > A few days ago, we had a discussion in Ubuntu about a packaging-dev meta
>> > package. The problem is that users have to install a bunch of packages
>> > if they want to dive into packaging. Even some packagers get annoyed
>> > when they need to turn a newly installed system into a packaging
>> > environment. The solution would be a meta package that depends on the
>> > commonly used packages for packaging.
>>
>> Isn't apt-get build-dep enough? Users can always use equivs for
>> something more specific.
>
> apt-get build-dep gets the build dependency for a specific package, but
> it wont give you devscripts for example.

I didn't realise you were going to send a mail to debian-devel too
(thought it'd just be ubuntu-devel), so I guess that'd mean make
devscripts a direct Rec if it ends up in Debian, because at the moment
it was being accounted for as a dependency of u-d-t

--
Mackenzie Morgan


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Old 05-26-2011, 08:35 PM
gregor herrmann
 
Default packaging-dev meta package

On Thu, 26 May 2011 22:29:11 +0200, Benjamin Drung wrote:

> > Isn't apt-get build-dep enough? Users can always use equivs for
> > something more specific.
> apt-get build-dep gets the build dependency for a specific package, but
> it wont give you devscripts for example.

Maybe the idea was build-essential, but it's still not enough ...

Cheers,
gregor

--
.'`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - PGP/GPG key ID: 0x8649AA06
: :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/
`. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe
`- NP: Cat Stevens: The Foreigner Suite
 
Old 05-26-2011, 08:37 PM
Benjamin Drung
 
Default packaging-dev meta package

Am Donnerstag, den 26.05.2011, 16:33 -0400 schrieb Mackenzie Morgan:
> On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Benjamin Drung <bdrung@debian.org> wrote:
> > Am Donnerstag, den 26.05.2011, 17:25 -0300 schrieb Fernando Lemos:
> >> On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Benjamin Drung <bdrung@debian.org> wrote:
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > A few days ago, we had a discussion in Ubuntu about a packaging-dev meta
> >> > package. The problem is that users have to install a bunch of packages
> >> > if they want to dive into packaging. Even some packagers get annoyed
> >> > when they need to turn a newly installed system into a packaging
> >> > environment. The solution would be a meta package that depends on the
> >> > commonly used packages for packaging.
> >>
> >> Isn't apt-get build-dep enough? Users can always use equivs for
> >> something more specific.
> >
> > apt-get build-dep gets the build dependency for a specific package, but
> > it wont give you devscripts for example.
>
> I didn't realise you were going to send a mail to debian-devel too
> (thought it'd just be ubuntu-devel), so I guess that'd mean make
> devscripts a direct Rec if it ends up in Debian, because at the moment
> it was being accounted for as a dependency of u-d-t

I thought that we should get the meta package into Debian if the DDs
like the idea of it and otherwise get it only into Debian.

Right, devscripts should be a direct dependency.

--
Benjamin Drung
Debian & Ubuntu Developer
 
Old 05-26-2011, 08:40 PM
gregor herrmann
 
Default packaging-dev meta package

On Thu, 26 May 2011 22:05:42 +0200, Benjamin Drung wrote:

> As a starting point packaging-dev would depend on
>
> build-essential
> quilt
> debhelper
> cmake
> autoconf
> cdbs
> bzr-builddeb
> apt-file
> ubuntu-dev-tools (only on Ubuntu systems)
>
> Do you like the idea or not? Do you have a better name for the meta
> package? Should something added to or removed from the dependency list?

I tentatively think the idea is good; I don't really care about the
name

The problem might be that the set of packages is not
trivial/uncontroversial; I'm not sure I need cdbs (or cmake), I've
never heard about bzr-builddeb, I miss cowbuilder (and also
svn-buildpackage and git-buildpackage, and maybe dh-make) ... So yes,
the idea is interesting, but the selection of packages might need
some consideration

Cheers,
gregor
--
.'`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - PGP/GPG key ID: 0x8649AA06
: :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/
`. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe
`- NP: Cat Stevens: The Foreigner Suite
 
Old 05-26-2011, 08:44 PM
Andrew Starr-Bochicchio
 
Default packaging-dev meta package

On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Benjamin Drung <bdrung@debian.org> wrote:
> As a starting point packaging-dev would depend on
>
> build-essential
> quilt
> debhelper
> cmake
> autoconf
> cdbs
> bzr-builddeb
> apt-file
> ubuntu-dev-tools (only on Ubuntu systems)
>
> Do you like the idea or not? Do you have a better name for the meta
> package? Should something added to or removed from the dependency list?

This could be useful. A couple of suggestions:

Keep vcs specific tools (git-buildpackage, bzr-builddeb,
svn-buildpackage) in the Recommends field so they are not hard
dependencies.

I suppose you don't you don't list devscripts, gnupg, lintian, dput |
dupload, and dh-make (there are probably some others) as they are
pulled in by other packages. I would explicitly depend on them

Recommends on pbuilder | cowbuilder?.

-- Andrew Starr-Bochicchio

Ubuntu Developer <https://launchpad.net/~andrewsomething>
Debian Contributor
<http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=a.starr.b%40gmail.com>
PGP/GPG Key ID: D53FDCB1


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Old 05-26-2011, 08:46 PM
Mackenzie Morgan
 
Default packaging-dev meta package

On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Andrew Starr-Bochicchio
<a.starr.b@gmail.com> wrote:
> Keep vcs specific tools (git-buildpackage, bzr-builddeb,
> svn-buildpackage) in the Recommends field so they are not hard
> dependencies.

The current version of the control field I've got sitting here has
build-essential in Depends and the rest in Recommends so people can
slim down at-will.

> I suppose you don't you don't list devscripts, gnupg, lintian, dput |
> dupload, and dh-make (there are probably some others) as they are
> pulled in by other packages. I would explicitly depend on them
>
> Recommends on pbuilder | cowbuilder?.

Can do

--
Mackenzie Morgan


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Old 05-26-2011, 08:49 PM
Benjamin Drung
 
Default packaging-dev meta package

Am Donnerstag, den 26.05.2011, 22:40 +0200 schrieb gregor herrmann:
> On Thu, 26 May 2011 22:05:42 +0200, Benjamin Drung wrote:
>
> > As a starting point packaging-dev would depend on
> >
> > build-essential
> > quilt
> > debhelper
> > cmake
> > autoconf
> > cdbs
> > bzr-builddeb
> > apt-file
> > ubuntu-dev-tools (only on Ubuntu systems)
> >
> > Do you like the idea or not? Do you have a better name for the meta
> > package? Should something added to or removed from the dependency list?
>
> I tentatively think the idea is good; I don't really care about the
> name
>
> The problem might be that the set of packages is not
> trivial/uncontroversial; I'm not sure I need cdbs (or cmake), I've
> never heard about bzr-builddeb, I miss cowbuilder (and also
> svn-buildpackage and git-buildpackage, and maybe dh-make) ... So yes,
> the idea is interesting, but the selection of packages might need
> some consideration

Then let's put the uncontroversial into Depends, the common (this needs
discussion) into Recommends and the others into Suggests.

Here's the starting point for discussion:

Depends:
build-essential
debhelper
devscripts
gnupg
lintian
dput | dupload
quilt
ubuntu-dev-tools (only on Ubuntu)
pbuilder | cowbuilder

Recommends:
apt-file
autoconf
bzr-builddeb (maybe Depends on Ubuntu)
svn-buildpackage
git-buildpackage
dh-make

Recommends or Suggests:
cdbs
cmake

--
Benjamin Drung
Debian & Ubuntu Developer
 

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