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Old 05-23-2011, 11:59 PM
 
Default double checking Debian's 686-pae vs. -486 probe

Recently Debian sid split the kernel into these two packages,

linux-image-2.6.39-1-486_2.6.39-1_i386.deb
linux-image-2.6.39-1-686-pae_2.6.39-1_i386.deb

My Thinkpad ended up being told by the installation scripts to use -486.

But my Thinkpad isn't really very old... how can one double check to see
if the decision was correct? I can't figure it out even after probing
the .debs to find just where they probe the choice.


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Old 05-24-2011, 12:37 AM
Russell Coker
 
Default double checking Debian's 686-pae vs. -486 probe

On Tue, 24 May 2011, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
> But my Thinkpad isn't really very old... how can one double check to see
> if the decision was correct? I can't figure it out even after probing
> the .debs to find just where they probe the choice.

Why not just install the other kernel and try booting it?

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Old 05-24-2011, 01:38 AM
 
Default double checking Debian's 686-pae vs. -486 probe

>>>>> "RC" == Russell Coker <russell@coker.com.au> writes:
RC> Why not just install the other kernel and try booting it?
Maybe it will lead to subtle data loss. You never know. That's why I was
hoping to dig out of the .debs just how they determine which Thinkpads
are hip, and which to skip.


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Old 05-24-2011, 03:27 AM
Goswin von Brederlow
 
Default double checking Debian's 686-pae vs. -486 probe

jidanni@jidanni.org writes:

>>>>>> "RC" == Russell Coker <russell@coker.com.au> writes:
> RC> Why not just install the other kernel and try booting it?
> Maybe it will lead to subtle data loss. You never know. That's why I was
> hoping to dig out of the .debs just how they determine which Thinkpads
> are hip, and which to skip.

No. The kernels check the cpu features on boot. They either work or not.

As for your initial question: Depending on how you install the
installer has different sets of kernels to choose from. Due to space not
all kernels are on all images so sometimes you get the fallback option
because the right one simply isn't available.

Also try the -amd64 kernel. If supported that is generally preferable to
686-pae.

MfG
Goswin


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Old 05-24-2011, 08:10 AM
Ben Hutchings
 
Default double checking Debian's 686-pae vs. -486 probe

On Tue, 2011-05-24 at 07:59 +0800, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
> Recently Debian sid split the kernel into these two packages,
>
> linux-image-2.6.39-1-486_2.6.39-1_i386.deb
> linux-image-2.6.39-1-686-pae_2.6.39-1_i386.deb
>
> My Thinkpad ended up being told by the installation scripts to use -486.
>
> But my Thinkpad isn't really very old... how can one double check to see
> if the decision was correct? I can't figure it out even after probing
> the .debs to find just where they probe the choice.

The clue is in the name. And expanded in the description, in case you
don't know what PAE is.

Ben.

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Old 05-24-2011, 08:41 AM
 
Default double checking Debian's 686-pae vs. -486 probe

>>>>> "BH" == Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> writes:

BH> The clue is in the name. And expanded in the description, in case you
BH> don't know what PAE is.

$ apt-cache show linux-image-2.6.39-1-686-pae|grep Celeron
supported by the Intel Pentium Pro/II/III/4/4M/D, Xeon, Celeron, Core and

That's me. Celeron.

Odd how whatever script it was told me I had to use -486.

I looked in the preinst and postinst parts of
/var/cache/apt/archives/linux-image-2.6.39-1-686-pae_2.6.39-1_i386.deb
to try to find what probed my Celeron and said it couldn't use 686-pae
and had to use -486, but it is one big black
mystery so sorry.


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Old 05-24-2011, 09:00 AM
Josselin Mouette
 
Default double checking Debian's 686-pae vs. -486 probe

Le mardi 24 mai 2011 * 16:41 +0800, jidanni@jidanni.org a écrit :
> >>>>> "BH" == Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> writes:
>
> BH> The clue is in the name. And expanded in the description, in case you
> BH> don't know what PAE is.
>
> $ apt-cache show linux-image-2.6.39-1-686-pae|grep Celeron
> supported by the Intel Pentium Pro/II/III/4/4M/D, Xeon, Celeron, Core and
>
> That's me. Celeron.
>
> Odd how whatever script it was told me I had to use -486.

How about trying a “grep pae /proc/cpuinfo” instead of looking for
approximate CPU descriptions?

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Old 05-24-2011, 09:32 AM
 
Default double checking Debian's 686-pae vs. -486 probe

>>>>> "JM" == Josselin Mouette <joss@debian.org> writes:
JM> How about trying a “grep pae /proc/cpuinfo” instead of looking for
JM> approximate CPU descriptions?
And indeed lshw says
product: Intel(R) Celeron(R) M processor 1.40GHz
capabilities: fpu fpu_exception wp vme de pse tsc msr mce cx8 sep mtrr pge mca cmov clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss tm pbe up bts

I.e., no pae.

So I would add "often" in the Description:

This kernel requires PAE (Physical Address Extension). This feature is **often**
supported by the Intel Pentium Pro/II/III/4/4M/D, Xeon, Celeron, Core and
Atom; AMD Geode NX, Athlon (K7), Duron, Opteron, Sempron, Turion or
Phenom; Transmeta Efficeon; and VIA C7.

or "may be" or "often available" or something like that.
Also the -486 Description should mention the name of the -686-pae package.

Say, for the sake of sharing a single .deb offline, what bad thing might
happen if I run the -486 kernel on my other machines where I could run
the -pae kernel? Namely other single Celerons having the pae capability.


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Old 05-24-2011, 11:05 AM
Andrey Rahmatullin
 
Default double checking Debian's 686-pae vs. -486 probe

On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 05:32:08PM +0800, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
> JM> How about trying a “grep pae /proc/cpuinfo” instead of looking for
> JM> approximate CPU descriptions?
> And indeed lshw says
> product: Intel(R) Celeron(R) M processor 1.40GHz
> capabilities: fpu fpu_exception wp vme de pse tsc msr mce cx8 sep mtrr pge mca cmov clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss tm pbe up bts
>
> I.e., no pae.
>
> So I would add "often" in the Description:
Or specifically mention early Centrino CPUs not having PAE support.

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Old 05-24-2011, 11:15 AM
 
Default double checking Debian's 686-pae vs. -486 probe

>>>>> "AR" == Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@wrar.name> writes:
AR> Or specifically mention early Centrino CPUs not having PAE support.
Celeron™ too! So just say "may" or "might" like the pros do.


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