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Old 05-17-2011, 10:10 PM
Erik de Castro Lopo
 
Default Anyone looking at darcs?

HI all,

Is anyone looking at getting the latest version of darcs into unstable?

If not, I will have a crack at it.

Cheers,
Erik
--
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Erik de Castro Lopo
http://www.mega-nerd.com/


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Old 05-18-2011, 06:31 AM
Sandro Tosi
 
Default Anyone looking at darcs?

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 00:10, Erik de Castro Lopo <mle+hs@mega-nerd.com> wrote:
> Is anyone looking at getting the latest version of darcs into unstable?
>
> If not, I will have a crack at it.

Why didn't you ask its maintainers (or at least cc them)? why didn't
you report a bug against darcs asking for the new version to be
packaged? why didn't you check darcs pts page[1], where you would have
seen they're looking for a new maintainer[2]?

[1] http://packages.qa.debian.org/d/darcs.html
[2] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=624162

Regards,
--
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My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/
Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi


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Old 05-19-2011, 11:00 AM
Tshepang Lekhonkhobe
 
Default Anyone looking at darcs?

On Wed, 2011-05-18 at 08:31 +0200, Sandro Tosi wrote:
> On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 00:10, Erik de Castro Lopo <mle+hs@mega-nerd.com> wrote:
> > Is anyone looking at getting the latest version of darcs into unstable?
> >
> > If not, I will have a crack at it.
>
> Why didn't you ask its maintainers (or at least cc them)? why didn't
> you report a bug against darcs asking for the new version to be
> packaged? why didn't you check darcs pts page[1], where you would have
> seen they're looking for a new maintainer[2]?
>
> [1] http://packages.qa.debian.org/d/darcs.html
> [2] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=624162

You are sharing good info, but you could have been more kind.


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Old 05-19-2011, 11:39 AM
Sandro Tosi
 
Default Anyone looking at darcs?

On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 13:00, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe <tshepang@gmail.com> wrote:
> You are sharing good info, but you could have been more kind.

from a guy (co)maintaining 22 packages in main you could expect more
than that. and where was rudeness? should I add flowers and kisses to
emails?

--
Sandro Tosi (aka morph, morpheus, matrixhasu)
My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/
Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi


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Old 05-19-2011, 12:22 PM
Peter Miller
 
Default Anyone looking at darcs?

On Thu, 2011-05-19 at 13:39 +0200, Sandro Tosi wrote:
> and where was rudeness?

> should I add flowers and kisses to emails?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This. This is rudeness.

Lose the sarcasm, if you wish to communicate more effectively.


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Peter Miller <pmiller@opensource.org.au>


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Old 05-19-2011, 12:37 PM
Sandro Tosi
 
Default Anyone looking at darcs?

On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 14:22, Peter Miller <pmiller@opensource.org.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-05-19 at 13:39 +0200, Sandro Tosi wrote:
>> and where was rudeness?
>
>> should I add flowers and kisses to emails?
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> This. *This is rudeness.

oh really? thanks for letting me know.

> Lose the sarcasm, if you wish to communicate more effectively.

Thanks for the lecture, so sad I didn't ask for one.

why not concentrating on doing something productive instead of mailing
non-sense? (ah please avoid replying I'm doing it, since some else
started the "teach the stupid guy a lesson" subthread.)

--
Sandro Tosi (aka morph, morpheus, matrixhasu)
My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/
Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi


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Old 05-19-2011, 12:51 PM
Osamu Aoki
 
Default Anyone looking at darcs?

Hi,

On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 01:39:11PM +0200, Sandro Tosi wrote:
> On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 13:00, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe <tshepang@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You are sharing good info, but you could have been more kind.

I guess Tshepang meant "kind" = "hand holding".

The burden of learning such basics lies with the contributor. Lack of
such due diligence is not so welcomed. Although Sandro made a very
terse explanation from a point of view of normal life, I consider his
effort to be very informative one. I consider this to be "kind" but
"terse".

> from a guy (co)maintaining 22 packages in main you could expect more
> than that. and where was rudeness? should I add flowers and kisses to
> emails?

Maybe Sandro did not need some "sarcasm" in his reply but I fully
understand his feeling and I support him ... I think here is a typical
gap of expectation around Debian. In order to reduce this kind of
tension, I recently added few reminders in mant-guide as "Social
dynamics of Debian".

http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/start.en.html#socialdynamics

Friendly cooperation is the driving force.
* Your contribution should not overstrain others.
* Your contribution is valuable only when others appreciate it.

Debian is not your school where you get automatic attention of teachers.
* You should be able to learn many things by yourself.
* Attention from other volunteers is a very scarce resource.
....

Osamu


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Old 05-19-2011, 02:09 PM
Ian Jackson
 
Default Anyone looking at darcs?

Sandro Tosi writes ("Re: Anyone looking at darcs?"):
> On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 13:00, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe <tshepang@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You are sharing good info, but you could have been more kind.

I agree.

> from a guy (co)maintaining 22 packages in main you could expect more
> than that. and where was rudeness?

I agree that it would have been better if the OP had known where to
find the information themselves. But, I also thought your mail was
unnecessarily brusque.

> should I add flowers and kisses to emails?

And this kind of sarcastic hyperbole is also unhelpful to the point of
rudeness. Please could you try to be more friendly ?

Thanks,
Ian.


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Old 05-19-2011, 02:09 PM
Ian Jackson
 
Default Anyone looking at darcs?

Sandro Tosi writes ("Re: Anyone looking at darcs?"):
> On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 13:00, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe <tshepang@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You are sharing good info, but you could have been more kind.

I agree.

> from a guy (co)maintaining 22 packages in main you could expect more
> than that. and where was rudeness?

I agree that it would have been better if the OP had known where to
find the information themselves. But, I also thought your mail was
unnecessarily brusque.

> should I add flowers and kisses to emails?

And this kind of sarcastic hyperbole is also unhelpful to the point of
rudeness. Please could you try to be more friendly ?

Thanks,
Ian.


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Old 05-20-2011, 08:55 AM
Tshepang Lekhonkhobe
 
Default Anyone looking at darcs?

On Thu, 2011-05-19 at 21:51 +0900, Osamu Aoki wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 01:39:11PM +0200, Sandro Tosi wrote:
> > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 13:00, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe <tshepang@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > You are sharing good info, but you could have been more kind.
>
> I guess Tshepang meant "kind" = "hand holding".

I didn't mean that. But the negative responses don't seem to me to be a
solution. If anything, someone looking at this sees nothing but
immaturity. Little things like this will let others think that the
Debian community isn't a friendly bunch. It's worse when it comes from
an official DD.

Anyways, since the person asking was pointed to the right resources
anyways, why add the negativity. "No, do it this way, you dummy!". How
about if that becomes, "No, do it this way". Or if that's too
unsatisfying, stay away or leave a link. Have a bunch of links ready for
cases where you think you've noticed a dummy.

> The burden of learning such basics lies with the contributor. Lack of
> such due diligence is not so welcomed. Although Sandro made a very
> terse explanation from a point of view of normal life, I consider his
> effort to be very informative one. I consider this to be "kind" but
> "terse".

It was kind because the info was offered, but it was unkind because the
guy was ridiculed. It's simply not needed. It just doesn't help. It even
makes people scared of asking questions. There's ways of saying that you
disapprove of people lacking diligence without being negative.

> > from a guy (co)maintaining 22 packages in main you could expect more
> > than that. and where was rudeness? should I add flowers and kisses to
> > emails?

That this guy does so much work for Debian makes him deserve even more
respect than usual I think.

> Maybe Sandro did not need some "sarcasm" in his reply but I fully
> understand his feeling and I support him ... I think here is a typical
> gap of expectation around Debian. In order to reduce this kind of
> tension, I recently added few reminders in mant-guide as "Social
> dynamics of Debian".
>
> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/start.en.html#socialdynamics
>
> Friendly cooperation is the driving force.
> * Your contribution should not overstrain others.
> * Your contribution is valuable only when others appreciate it.
>
> Debian is not your school where you get automatic attention of teachers.
> * You should be able to learn many things by yourself.
> * Attention from other volunteers is a very scarce resource.
> ....
>
> Osamu

Good work there. I agree.



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