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Old 05-02-2011, 12:40 PM
Abou Al Montacir
 
Default Debian desktop market focused release

On Mon, 2011-05-02 at 13:31 +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:


Benefits for Debian:

* Attract users who think that testing is only a development
branch, and want newer software than what one finds in stable.
Those users are likely to be rather advanced users (free
software developers and contributors), thus interesting to work
with (able to submit good-quality bug reports, etc). Some of
them could also become Debian contributors. And even if they
don't, more users of testing/rolling means more testers of the
next stable release [remember how the bug reporting rate of
Ubuntu is higher than Debian's -- some areas of Debian could use
more testers].

* Give back to the free software world by providing a platform
where new upstream releases would quickly be available to users.
Since users would be able to test new upstream releases earlier,
they would be able to provide feedback to upstream devs earlier,
contributing to a shorter feedback loop. Debian is often
identified by upstream developers as the platform with releases
from two years ago. I would love to see Debian in a position to
contribute more to improviing the quality of the Free Software
world.


Hi all,



First, thank you for this message which summarizes huge mail thread. I didn't personally read most of the mails, as these are hundreds. So, please excuse me if I'm repeating something that was already said.



What about keeping the same schema, which is working well (unstable==>testing==>stable), and just adding a new kind of parallel release path (unstable==>testing==>desktop) which is a kind of short cycle release targeting the desktop/laptop market.



Today, testing is quite good quality, but sometimes it get stuck and cause headaches for a few days rendering PC non usable. So filtering this kind of things should be easy especially for stable lesser quality release.



I like Debian's logo quality's first and think we should keep this even when going to the desktop market. So maybe we need to focus on this way based on short cycle releases (in addition to the regular release cycle).



One way is to have a second release team for this purpose. An maybe the release team could monitor these desktop release in order to decide, the best time, to base stable on a giver desktop version




unstable==>testing==>desktop
********************* ||==>frozen==>stable

Just my two cents,

Cheers,
 
Old 05-02-2011, 12:44 PM
Pierre Habouzit
 
Default Debian desktop market focused release

On Mon, May 02, 2011 at 02:40:21PM +0200, Abou Al Montacir wrote:
> On Mon, 2011-05-02 at 13:31 +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
>
> > Benefits for Debian:
> >
> > * Attract users who think that testing is only a development
> > branch, and want newer software than what one finds in stable.
> > Those users are likely to be rather advanced users (free
> > software developers and contributors), thus interesting to work
> > with (able to submit good-quality bug reports, etc). Some of
> > them could also become Debian contributors. And even if they
> > don't, more users of testing/rolling means more testers of the
> > next stable release [remember how the bug reporting rate of
> > Ubuntu is higher than Debian's -- some areas of Debian could use
> > more testers].
> >
> > * Give back to the free software world by providing a platform
> > where new upstream releases would quickly be available to users.
> > Since users would be able to test new upstream releases earlier,
> > they would be able to provide feedback to upstream devs earlier,
> > contributing to a shorter feedback loop. Debian is often
> > identified by upstream developers as the platform with releases
> > from two years ago. I would love to see Debian in a position to
> > contribute more to improviing the quality of the Free Software
> > world.
>
> Hi all,
>
> First, thank you for this message which summarizes huge mail thread. I
> didn't personally read most of the mails, as these are hundreds. So,
> please excuse me if I'm repeating something that was already said.
>
> What about keeping the same schema, which is working well
> (unstable==>testing==>stable), and just adding a new kind of parallel
> release path (unstable==>testing==>desktop) which is a kind of short
> cycle release targeting the desktop/laptop market.
>
> Today, testing is quite good quality, but sometimes it get stuck and
> cause headaches for a few days rendering PC non usable. So filtering
> this kind of things should be easy especially for stable lesser quality
> release.
>
> I like Debian's logo quality's first and think we should keep this even
> when going to the desktop market. So maybe we need to focus on this way
> based on short cycle releases (in addition to the regular release
> cycle).
>
> One way is to have a second release team for this purpose. An maybe the
> release team could monitor these desktop release in order to decide, the
> best time, to base stable on a giver desktop version
>
>
> unstable==>testing==>desktop
> ||==>frozen==>stable

This is addressed in the thread, and some (me included) fear that it'll
squander resources and lessen quality. If you don't add new people to do
this extra work, then it means you'll make people do both, and they are
already overwhelmed with their current work.

Plus it splits the user base. It's all in the end of lucas mail FWIW.
--
O Pierre Habouzit
O madcoder@debian.org
OOO http://www.madism.org


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