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Old 04-07-2011, 06:44 AM
Russ Allbery
 
Default More Vcs-Fields in debian/control?

Ben Finney <ben+debian@benfinney.id.au> writes:
> Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> writes:

>> If upstream is using some other weird thing like bzr or Mercurial or
>> whatnot, we're now getting into rather more effort than I'd personally
>> want to bother with.

> If Bazaar and Mercurial are “some other weird thing”, that doesn't bode
> well for the future of the Debian tools interacting with VCSen. Is any
> VCS other than Git to be deprecated?

You are both taking out of context a specific example within a larger
discussion that had nothing to do with your reply, and attributing to me
rather impressive and stunning power over Debian as a whole.

--
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>


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Old 04-07-2011, 06:51 AM
Ben Finney
 
Default More Vcs-Fields in debian/control?

Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> writes:

> You are both taking out of context a specific example within a larger
> discussion that had nothing to do with your reply, and attributing to
> me rather impressive and stunning power over Debian as a whole.

I object! How dare you call me short!

:-)

--
“What we usually pray to God is not that His will be done, but |
` that He approve ours.” —Helga Bergold Gross |
_o__) |
Ben Finney


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Old 04-07-2011, 07:03 AM
Vincent Bernat
 
Default More Vcs-Fields in debian/control?

OoO En cette aube naissante du jeudi 07 avril 2011, vers 07:46, Joey
Hess <joeyh@debian.org> disait*:

>> We (lindi, liw and me) had just a short discussion in #-devel, that it
>> would be nice to have some sort of Vcs-Upstream-* in debian/control, to
>> be able to get to upstreams vcs history if it is not imported in
>> debian's vcs (which is often the case when using svn-bp or git-bf with
>> import-orig). [background: lindi is doing some git-copyright checks and
>> it fails heavily if there is no upstream history as the debian
>> maintainer is asumed to be the copyright holder for everything]

> I would instead suggest we deprecate packages not including upstream
> source in their VCS. The weight of progress is against that practice;
> tools have improved so there is little excuse to do it, it increasingly
> violates expections and makes things harder.

> Some examples:

> * git cherry-pick cannot be used
> * pristine-tar cannot be used
> * apt-get source now suggests running debcheckout when VCS fields are
> present. But for such a package, debcheckout won't result in the same
> source tree as does apt-get source.

> Adding baroque complications to the VCS fields doesn't deal with these
> problems consistently, and while it might help this style of VCS use
> linger a while longer, it will be an unnecessary complication going
> forward.

Large SVN repositories containing only debian/ directories are already
quite slow (at least on alioth). Adding upstream sources (and history)
would not improve this part.

Moreover, do we have space to cope with this?
--
I AM NOT MY LONG-LOST TWIN
I AM NOT MY LONG-LOST TWIN
I AM NOT MY LONG-LOST TWIN
-+- Bart Simpson on chalkboard in episode 4F03
 
Old 04-07-2011, 08:11 AM
Charles Plessy
 
Default More Vcs-Fields in debian/control?

Le Wed, Apr 06, 2011 at 10:53:55PM -0700, Russ Allbery a écrit :
>
> However, is the control file really the right place for that? I guess we
> don't have a better place right now, but this doesn't feel like package
> metadata that needs to be put into the Sources file.

Hi,

there is my pet project about upstream metadata:

http://wiki.debian.org/UpstreamMetadata

The key concept is to store ‘Field: value’ data in a file called
debian/upstream-metadata.yaml, and to access it from the VCS where
the package is stored (that is, not from the source package itself).

This allows:

- To update the data without uploading the package;
- to distribute a reasonnably up-to-date copy with our source packages.

I have not yet found time to push for finishing the proof of principle, which
is to collect bibliographic information for the Blends websites through that
system via the UDD, but it would be straightforward to use it right now for
packages managed in Git and Subversion. Adding support for other VCSes should
be trivial. For packages that are not managed in a VCS, I think that the most
realistic solution would be to maintain the metadata in a special flat file on
collab-maint. (And I also support deprecating the non-use of VCS for managing
source packages).

The biggest difficulty would be to agree on field names. The best would be to
be compatible with some pre-existing RDF ontologies, like DOAP.

Have a nice day,

--
Charles Plessy
Debian Med packaging team,
http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-med
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan


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Old 04-07-2011, 08:51 AM
Paul Wise
 
Default More Vcs-Fields in debian/control?

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org> wrote:

> I would instead suggest we deprecate packages not including upstream
> source in their VCS. The weight of progress is against that practice;
> tools have improved so there is little excuse to do it, it increasingly
> violates expections and makes things harder.

As someone who works in pkg-games where upstreams commonly include
non-free material, many embedded code copies and hundreds of megabytes
of data, I don't agree with this.

--
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Old 04-07-2011, 12:20 PM
Andreas Tille
 
Default More Vcs-Fields in debian/control?

On Thu, Apr 07, 2011 at 08:22:06AM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
>
> There are lots of upstream-metadata that we might want to have available
> and we need to find a proper solution that doesn't involve debian/control.

In Debian Med and Debian Science we are just using

http://wiki.debian.org/UpstreamMetadata

for keeping scientific references. Bu tthe idea is not restricted to
this. There exists an UDD importer for these data.

> It should be outside of the package and probably shared accross
> all Linux distributions. It seems to me to be a good extension of the work
> done/planned on the cross-distribution app-store.

I do not see a reason why this should not be possible with the proposed
solution. It's just not (yet) widely adopted in Debian.

Kind regards

Andreas.

--
http://fam-tille.de


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