FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Debian > Debian Development

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 03-27-2011, 05:04 PM
Thomas Goirand
 
Default Packaging Openstack for Debian: anyone else interested?

Hi everyone,

I'm considering packaging Openstack cloud computing system for Debian.
There's already another DD that expressed his interest for it.


I already started in fact. I took the work made in Ubuntu, and did a bit
of rework (I didn't like the rules.tiny debhelper style with so many
overrides, or the fact that the rules didn't use setup.py...).


Is there anyone else interested? I might open a new project on Alioth
for that, if we are a lot. If we are only 2, then colab-maint will be
enough, I guess.


Also, Openstack is using bzr, and I know only (CVS and) Git. Does anyone
have good pointers to documentation not aimed at newbies, so I don't
waste my time too much?


Cheers,

Thomas Goirand (zigo)


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 4D8F6E2D.9070307@debian.org">http://lists.debian.org/4D8F6E2D.9070307@debian.org
 
Old 03-27-2011, 06:57 PM
Yaroslav Halchenko
 
Default Packaging Openstack for Debian: anyone else interested?

> Is there anyone else interested? I might open a new project on
> Alioth for that, if we are a lot. If we are only 2, then colab-maint
> will be enough, I guess.

I just wanted to express THANKS for the effort to get openstack in
Debian. It would be great, and thanks for taking care about it

> Also, Openstack is using bzr, and I know only (CVS and) Git. Does
> anyone have good pointers to documentation not aimed at newbies, so
> I don't waste my time too much?

few blunt cents: I would just

1. use something like
https://github.com/yarikoptic/git-bzr
to not mess with learning bzr and operate in GIT (unless upstream
relies on some bzr mechanism to embed versioning during build etc)

NB checkout for fixes and alternative reimplementations (e.g. in
Python)

2. base packaging on actual tarball instead of directly on top of
the clone of upstream VCS

that might prevent future pain if upstream decides to switch to
another VCS

YMMV

--
=------------------------------------------------------------------=
Keep in touch www.onerussian.com
Yaroslav Halchenko www.ohloh.net/accounts/yarikoptic


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 20110327185710.GD6200@onerussian.com">http://lists.debian.org/20110327185710.GD6200@onerussian.com
 
Old 03-27-2011, 07:04 PM
Thomas Goirand
 
Default Packaging Openstack for Debian: anyone else interested?

On 03/28/2011 02:57 AM, Yaroslav Halchenko wrote:

few blunt cents: I would just

1. use something like
https://github.com/yarikoptic/git-bzr
to not mess with learning bzr and operate in GIT (unless upstream
relies on some bzr mechanism to embed versioning during build etc)


Good idea, thanks.


2. base packaging on actual tarball instead of directly on top of
the clone of upstream VCS


Of course, I will use tarballs as reference, but the idea is to pull
from upstream VCS up to the latest *tag* corresponding to the tarball,
so that I can "git cherry-pick -x" any (security) fix.



that might prevent future pain if upstream decides to switch to
another VCS


Frankly, I think it's silly that there's both Git, HG and Bzr around.
It's a loss of time for everyone, when all of the above 3 seems very
close from each other in terms of functionality.


Thomas


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 4D8F8A3F.7020401@debian.org">http://lists.debian.org/4D8F8A3F.7020401@debian.org
 
Old 03-27-2011, 07:18 PM
Soren Hansen
 
Default Packaging Openstack for Debian: anyone else interested?

2011/3/27 Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org>:
> I already started in fact. I took the work made in Ubuntu, and did a
> bit of rework (I didn't like the rules.tiny debhelper style with so
> many overrides, or the fact that the rules didn't use setup.py...).

For years, Debian Developers have shouted and screamed whenever someone
in Ubuntu added something as benign as a patch system (so that their
indvidual changes would be easier to absorb back into Debian), and here
you are, saying you want to replace our build system altogether for no
good reason? No, I don't think having a couple of overrides is a good
reason to replace the build system, and your suggesting that our
debian/rules doesn't use setup.py really doesn't add much technical
credibility to your criticism, to be quite honest.

If you want to do this on your own, fine. I think it would be sad if we
couldn't make this good example of a "this is how Debian can be a
downstream of Ubuntu" story, but I can't force you to do anything. If
you actually expect to work with us, I suggest you stop assuming we're
idiots who don't know how to packages stuff and start being a courteous
downstream, and let's just say you've not got much of a head start on
that account.

> Is there anyone else interested? I might open a new project on Alioth for
> that, if we are a lot. If we are only 2, then colab-maint will be enough, I
> guess.

Or, you know, you could stop building new silos and actually work with
us. There's no technical reason why we couldn't share our packaging
efforts.

> Also, Openstack is using bzr, and I know only (CVS and) Git. Does
> anyone have good pointers to documentation not aimed at newbies, so I
> don't waste my time too much?

We tend to point people at http://wiki.openstack.org/LifeWithBzrAndLaunchpad

If you're used to a DVCS, bzr shouldn't be hard to grasp (unless you're
the sort of person who insists on rebasing a lot).

--
Soren Hansen
Ubuntu Developer * *http://www.ubuntu.com/
OpenStack Developer http://www.openstack.org/


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: AANLkTinSEWRURyqySBojZQZuzUZpWQ8JNqR+wu2pAnZ=@mail .gmail.com">http://lists.debian.org/AANLkTinSEWRURyqySBojZQZuzUZpWQ8JNqR+wu2pAnZ=@mail .gmail.com
 
Old 03-27-2011, 07:22 PM
Soren Hansen
 
Default Packaging Openstack for Debian: anyone else interested?

2011/3/27 Yaroslav Halchenko <yoh@debian.org>:
>> Also, Openstack is using bzr, and I know only (CVS and) Git. Does
>> anyone have good pointers to documentation not aimed at newbies, so
>> I don't waste my time too much?
>
> few blunt cents: I would just
>
> 1. use something like
> * https://github.com/yarikoptic/git-bzr
> * to not mess with learning bzr and operate in GIT (unless upstream
> * relies on some bzr mechanism to embed versioning during build etc)
>
> * NB checkout for fixes and alternative reimplementations (e.g. in
> * Python)

I'm reliably informed that git can't work with tildes in tags
(specifically in the context of git-bzr, at least). We a tag in bzr for
each version we upload to Ubuntu, and they are of the form
2011.2~bzrXXXX-0ubuntu1.

> 2. base packaging on actual tarball instead of directly on top of
> * the clone of upstream VCS

Our packaging is maintained completely separate from the upstream bzr.
We build a tarball for every commit to upstream trunk, and we use that
as the basis for our packaging.


--
Soren Hansen
Ubuntu Developer * *http://www.ubuntu.com/
OpenStack Developer http://www.openstack.org/


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: AANLkTikNK9ZAm4Kdhee1cxFOf+M4GLg+Y6LJse7ZPeoz@mail .gmail.com">http://lists.debian.org/AANLkTikNK9ZAm4Kdhee1cxFOf+M4GLg+Y6LJse7ZPeoz@mail .gmail.com
 
Old 03-27-2011, 07:41 PM
Soren Hansen
 
Default Packaging Openstack for Debian: anyone else interested?

Let me put this differently..

If there's a DD out there who wants to work *with* us and get OpenStack
(and all its dependencies, which is really the tedious part) into
Debian, I'd the *thrilled* to work with you. There's a number of things
that are needed, new packages as well as patches to existing ones, but
given that we've made it happen once already in Ubuntu, it should
definitely be an approachable amount of work.

--
Soren Hansen
Ubuntu Developer * *http://www.ubuntu.com/
OpenStack Developer http://www.openstack.org/


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: AANLkTimktpx3cdq75NKH54UqVMq53Afa=SupHnBkZ_Fu@mail .gmail.com">http://lists.debian.org/AANLkTimktpx3cdq75NKH54UqVMq53Afa=SupHnBkZ_Fu@mail .gmail.com
 
Old 03-27-2011, 08:03 PM
Stefano Zacchiroli
 
Default Packaging Openstack for Debian: anyone else interested?

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 01:04:45AM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> I'm considering packaging Openstack cloud computing system for
> Debian. There's already another DD that expressed his interest for it.

So, I've met a couple of times during the last year people from
Rackspace (the company behind Openstack) and discussed with them Debian
packaging of Openstack. One of those people is Soren Hansen, who has
already chimed in this thread.

In those discussions, they declared their interest in packaging
Openstack for Debian. They seemed in general quite excited about Debian,
although clearly they haven't yet finalized the necessary steps for
actually *having* Openstack in Debian (no package is in the Debian
archive yet ...).

I was about to point you to the people from Rackspace to collaborate
with, but well, that step is no longer needed as Soren has noticed this
thread already.

> I already started in fact. I took the work made in Ubuntu, and did a
> bit of rework (I didn't like the rules.tiny debhelper style with so
> many overrides, or the fact that the rules didn't use setup.py...).
<snip>
> Also, Openstack is using bzr, and I know only (CVS and) Git. Does
> anyone have good pointers to documentation not aimed at newbies, so
> I don't waste my time too much?

On this respect, I tend to agree with Soren. I believe it's in the
interest of Debian to avoid unnecessary deviations from the packaging
it's already been done for other Debian-based distro(s). Even more so, I
believe it would be in our interest to try to work together, having a
single packaging team to which all interested parties have access.

Of course, whoever will be doing the work in Debian is free to choose
how to do that and you're entitled to question existing choice and to
make better choices. But please, think of the kittens. Any change that
will make more difficult to share work has a cost in the long run that
might, and will, impact on the quality of Openstack packages for Debian.

Thanks for your interest in packaging Openstack!
Cheers.

--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Quando anche i santi ti voltano le spalle, | . |. I've fans everywhere
ti resta John Fante -- V. Capossela .......| ..: |.......... -- C. Adams
 
Old 03-27-2011, 10:52 PM
Ben Finney
 
Default Packaging Openstack for Debian: anyone else interested?

Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> writes:

> Frankly, I think it's silly that there's both Git, HG and Bzr around.
> It's a loss of time for everyone, when all of the above 3 seems very
> close from each other in terms of functionality.

The same argument applies to Debian .deb, Red Hat .rpm, and so on. The
functionality of each is very close to the others because they all were
designed around the same time to solve the same class of problem.

That doesn't mean it's silly to have each of them continue to be around.

--
“Try adding “as long as you don't breach the terms of service – |
` according to our sole judgement” to the end of any cloud |
_o__) computing pitch.” —Simon Phipps, 2010-12-11 |
Ben Finney


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 87sju8qipt.fsf@benfinney.id.au">http://lists.debian.org/87sju8qipt.fsf@benfinney.id.au
 
Old 03-28-2011, 02:20 AM
Yaroslav Halchenko
 
Default Packaging Openstack for Debian: anyone else interested?

On Sun, 27 Mar 2011, Soren Hansen wrote:
> > * NB checkout for fixes and alternative reimplementations (e.g. in
> > * Python)
> I'm reliably informed that git can't work with tildes in tags

correct!

> (specifically in the context of git-bzr, at least). We a tag in bzr for
> each version we upload to Ubuntu, and they are of the form
> 2011.2~bzrXXXX-0ubuntu1.

usually ~ are placed with _ (at least that is what git-buildpackage
does)

--
=------------------------------------------------------------------=
Keep in touch www.onerussian.com
Yaroslav Halchenko www.ohloh.net/accounts/yarikoptic


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 20110328022057.GE6200@onerussian.com">http://lists.debian.org/20110328022057.GE6200@onerussian.com
 
Old 03-28-2011, 09:37 AM
Stefano Zacchiroli
 
Default Packaging Openstack for Debian: anyone else interested?

On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 09:41:31PM +0200, Soren Hansen wrote:
> Let me put this differently..
>
> If there's a DD out there who wants to work *with* us and get OpenStack
> (and all its dependencies, which is really the tedious part) into
> Debian, I'd the *thrilled* to work with you. There's a number of things
> that are needed, new packages as well as patches to existing ones, but
> given that we've made it happen once already in Ubuntu, it should
> definitely be an approachable amount of work.

Thanks for this second version Soren. I understand that in view of past,
reversed sides, complaints it's not easy to read a proposal of build
system and VCS change. Considering all this, Thomas and other people
interested to work on Openstack, can you please in the beginning try to
stay close to the build system used on the current packaging and use the
same VCS, unless you have compelling reasons not to do so?

Let's remember that in Debian we are compelled to be good downstream for
all the software we package, whether it comes from "pure" upstreams or
from other distribution upstreams. Staying to close to upstream is just
a basic step that will make it easier to give back our changes to
upstream.

Given the availability of Soren to work together, it would be great if
additionally you can converge to work on the same team with a common
VCS, with different branches for each target distribution.

I'm looking forward to a great set of Openstack packages for Debian,
Cheers.

--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Quando anche i santi ti voltano le spalle, | . |. I've fans everywhere
ti resta John Fante -- V. Capossela .......| ..: |.......... -- C. Adams
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 06:34 AM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org