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Old 03-25-2011, 07:48 PM
Adam Borowski
 
Default MBF alert: packages with very long source / .deb filenames

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 05:09:54PM +0100, Rene Engelhard wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 03:27:57PM +0000, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> > The longest is:
> >
> > libreoffice-presentation-minimizer_1.0.3+LibO3.3.1-1_kfreebsd-amd64.deb
> >
> > at 71.
>
> Good, then any bug against openoffice.org is not needed, as that obviously
> will be + wontfix wheezy-ignore, because it simply can't be fixed as we need
> the transitional packages

It still can have a version number much shorter than 1.0.3+LibO3.3.1-1.

--
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// Never attribute to stupidity what can be
// adequately explained by malice.


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Old 03-25-2011, 07:59 PM
Rene Engelhard
 
Default MBF alert: packages with very long source / .deb filenames

Hi,

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 09:48:15PM +0100, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 05:09:54PM +0100, Rene Engelhard wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 03:27:57PM +0000, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> > > The longest is:
> > >
> > > libreoffice-presentation-minimizer_1.0.3+LibO3.3.1-1_kfreebsd-amd64.deb
> > >
> > > at 71.
> >
> > Good, then any bug against openoffice.org is not needed, as that obviously
> > will be + wontfix wheezy-ignore, because it simply can't be fixed as we need
> > the transitional packages
>
> It still can have a version number much shorter than 1.0.3+LibO3.3.1-1.

And there's no package out of openoffice.org which has that style of version.

And no, it cannot have a shorter version in libreoffice (e.g. you simply can't remov
the +LibO3.3.1-1 unless you get problems in versioning as the version before the +
doesn't necessarily change between releases)

Gre/Regards,

Ren
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:04 PM
Steve McIntyre
 
Default MBF alert: packages with very long source / .deb filenames

John H. Robinson, IV wrote:
>Olaf van der Spek wrote:
>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 5:27 PM, Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> wrote:
>> >>Why's that? Isn't UDF widely supported?
>> >
>> > Implementations often widely differ in their limitations - see the
>> > Wikipedia page for more details. The suggested way to make a safe UDF
>> > DVD is often along the lines of "use the ISO9660 bridge format". :-(
>>
>> That's not our problem, is it?
>
>It is, if we are trying to be as compatible as possible.

Absolutely, yes.

>What about keeping the first cd/dvd/bd as compatible as possible, and
>not worrying about the subsequent ones? As mentioned, and mirror seeding
>would have to be synced anyway.

Ewww, special casing...!

--
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There's no sensation to compare with this
Suspended animation, A state of bliss


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Old 03-25-2011, 09:09 PM
Steve McIntyre
 
Default MBF alert: packages with very long source / .deb filenames

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 12:28:54PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
>Steve McIntyre wrote:
>> There are uses I've heard about, including (apparently quite common)
>> using CDs and DVDs to seed a mirror on a Windows server.
>
>If I had to chose between that working, and not needing to worry about
>filename lengths, I'd choose the latter.

We already have arbitrary limits on filename length (~200 bytes or so
on RockRidge), even before this. I'm just proposing to lower them for
a common use case. Do we really care about supporting *very* long
names here?

>> >Is it possible to provide Joliet filenames for only a subset of files?
>>
>> It is, yes. But not something I'd like to do if we can avoid it.
>
>One approach then would be to omit joliet filenames for the few long
>packages. This would not even impact your use case above much, since
>any mirror seeded from files from CDs needs a further sync step.

I'd be much happier to not have to special case yet another thing in
the CD scripts. That way potentially leads to unforeseen bugs in the
future, for very little gain.

--
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. steve@einval.com
"I can't ever sleep on planes ... call it irrational if you like, but I'm
afraid I'll miss my stop" -- Vivek Dasmohapatra


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Old 03-26-2011, 06:56 AM
Raphael Hertzog
 
Default MBF alert: packages with very long source / .deb filenames

On Fri, 25 Mar 2011, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 12:28:54PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> >Steve McIntyre wrote:
> >> There are uses I've heard about, including (apparently quite common)
> >> using CDs and DVDs to seed a mirror on a Windows server.
> >
> >If I had to chose between that working, and not needing to worry about
> >filename lengths, I'd choose the latter.
>
> We already have arbitrary limits on filename length (~200 bytes or so
> on RockRidge), even before this. I'm just proposing to lower them for
> a common use case. Do we really care about supporting *very* long
> names here?

I think so. The package with long names tend to follow a naming policy
that sort of imposes the long name... so if we put a too-short limit
then we're asking them to make an exception in the naming policy.

> >One approach then would be to omit joliet filenames for the few long
> >packages. This would not even impact your use case above much, since
> >any mirror seeded from files from CDs needs a further sync step.
>
> I'd be much happier to not have to special case yet another thing in
> the CD scripts. That way potentially leads to unforeseen bugs in the
> future, for very little gain.

What happens if you try to put too-long filenames on the CD with Joliet
enabled?

Does it fail to build? Are there options to rename the files
automatically?

If it means we have some unexpected filenames for long filenames on
Windows, it's not a big deal IMO.

Cheers,
--
Raphaël Hertzog ◈ Debian Developer

Follow my Debian News ▶ http://RaphaelHertzog.com (English)
▶ http://RaphaelHertzog.fr (Français)


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Old 03-26-2011, 12:53 PM
Hendrik Sattler
 
Default MBF alert: packages with very long source / .deb filenames

Am Freitag 25 Mrz 2011, 21:59:31 schrieb Rene Engelhard:
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 09:48:15PM +0100, Adam Borowski wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 05:09:54PM +0100, Rene Engelhard wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 03:27:57PM +0000, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> > > > The longest is:
> > > >
> > > > libreoffice-presentation-minimizer_1.0.3+LibO3.3.1-1_kfreebsd-amd64.d
> > > > eb
> > > >
> > > > at 71.
> > >
> > > Good, then any bug against openoffice.org is not needed, as that
> > > obviously will be + wontfix wheezy-ignore, because it simply can't be
> > > fixed as we need the transitional packages
> >
> > It still can have a version number much shorter than 1.0.3+LibO3.3.1-1.
>
> And there's no package out of openoffice.org which has that style of
> version.
>
> And no, it cannot have a shorter version in libreoffice (e.g. you simply
> can't remov the +LibO3.3.1-1 unless you get problems in versioning as the
> version before the + doesn't necessarily change between releases)

At least the "LibO" can be dropped.

HS


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Old 03-26-2011, 01:18 PM
gregor herrmann
 
Default MBF alert: packages with very long source / .deb filenames

On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 08:56:14 +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote:

> > We already have arbitrary limits on filename length (~200 bytes or so
> > on RockRidge), even before this. I'm just proposing to lower them for
> > a common use case. Do we really care about supporting *very* long
> > names here?
> I think so. The package with long names tend to follow a naming policy
> that sort of imposes the long name... so if we put a too-short limit
> then we're asking them to make an exception in the naming policy.

Right, that's certainly true for the lib.*-perl packages, and I
wouldn't know how we should rename them in a sane way.


Cheers,
gregor

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Old 03-26-2011, 01:32 PM
Ben Hutchings
 
Default MBF alert: packages with very long source / .deb filenames

On Sat, 2011-03-26 at 15:18 +0100, gregor herrmann wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 08:56:14 +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
>
> > > We already have arbitrary limits on filename length (~200 bytes or so
> > > on RockRidge), even before this. I'm just proposing to lower them for
> > > a common use case. Do we really care about supporting *very* long
> > > names here?
> > I think so. The package with long names tend to follow a naming policy
> > that sort of imposes the long name... so if we put a too-short limit
> > then we're asking them to make an exception in the naming policy.
>
> Right, that's certainly true for the lib.*-perl packages, and I
> wouldn't know how we should rename them in a sane way.

I don't think the longstanding naming policy for Perl binary packages
has resulted in these very long names. (I believe I once had the
longest-named binary package in the archive with
libmaypole-plugin-authentication-usersessioncookie-perl, but that was
still only 55 characters.)

The really absurdly long names Steve found seem to be used for secondary
source tarballs for some v3 source packages, where the file name
essentially includes two full Perl module names. If that's specified in
current Perl policy, it should be fixed (and can be fixed without
confusing users).

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
Once a job is fouled up, anything done to improve it makes it worse.
 
Old 03-26-2011, 02:40 PM
Olaf van der Spek
 
Default MBF alert: packages with very long source / .deb filenames

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 5:55 PM, John H. Robinson, IV <jaqque@debian.org> wrote:
>> That's not our problem, is it?
>
> It is, if we are trying to be as compatible as possible.

Compatible with what? Bugs in other implementations?
What does that really gain us?

--
Olaf


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Old 03-26-2011, 04:47 PM
gregor herrmann
 
Default MBF alert: packages with very long source / .deb filenames

On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 14:32:27 +0000, Ben Hutchings wrote:

> > > I think so. The package with long names tend to follow a naming policy
> > > that sort of imposes the long name... so if we put a too-short limit
> > > then we're asking them to make an exception in the naming policy.
> > Right, that's certainly true for the lib.*-perl packages, and I
> > wouldn't know how we should rename them in a sane way.
> The really absurdly long names Steve found seem to be used for secondary
> source tarballs for some v3 source packages, where the file name
> essentially includes two full Perl module names.

Thanks for the pointer, I admit that I have missed this detail.

For the two packages listed in Steve's mail that gives us:

libcgi-application-basic-plugin-bundle-perl_0.5-1.debian.tar.gz
libcgi-application-basic-plugin-bundle-perl_0.5-1.dsc
libcgi-application-basic-plugin-bundle-perl_0.5.orig-CGI-Application-Dispatch-2-17.tar.gz
libcgi-application-basic-plugin-bundle-perl_0.5.orig-CGI-Application-Plugin-AutoRunmode-0-17.tar.gz
libcgi-application-basic-plugin-bundle-perl_0.5.orig-CGI-Application-Plugin-ConfigAuto-1-32.tar.gz
libcgi-application-basic-plugin-bundle-perl_0.5.orig-CGI-Application-Plugin-DBH-4-00.tar.gz
libcgi-application-basic-plugin-bundle-perl_0.5.orig-CGI-Application-Plugin-DebugScreen-0-06.tar.gz
libcgi-application-basic-plugin-bundle-perl_0.5.orig-CGI-Application-Plugin-DevPopup-1-06.tar.gz
libcgi-application-basic-plugin-bundle-perl_0.5.orig-CGI-Application-Plugin-ErrorPage-1-21.tar.gz
libcgi-application-basic-plugin-bundle-perl_0.5.orig-CGI-Application-Plugin-FillInForm-1-15.tar.gz
libcgi-application-basic-plugin-bundle-perl_0.5.orig-CGI-Application-Plugin-Forward-1-06.tar.gz
libcgi-application-basic-plugin-bundle-perl_0.5.orig-CGI-Application-Plugin-LogDispatch-1-02.tar.gz
libcgi-application-basic-plugin-bundle-perl_0.5.orig-CGI-Application-Plugin-Redirect-1-00.tar.gz
libcgi-application-basic-plugin-bundle-perl_0.5.orig-CGI-Application-Plugin-Session-1-03.tar.gz
libcgi-application-basic-plugin-bundle-perl_0.5.orig-CGI-Application-Plugin-Stream-2-10.tar.gz
libcgi-application-basic-plugin-bundle-perl_0.5.orig-CGI-Application-Plugin-ValidateRM-2-3.tar.gz
libcgi-application-basic-plugin-bundle-perl_0.5.orig-CGI-Application-Plugin-ViewCode-1-02.tar.gz
libcgi-application-basic-plugin-bundle-perl_0.5.orig-CGI-Application-Standard-Config-1-01.tar.gz
libcgi-application-basic-plugin-bundle-perl_0.5.orig.tar.gz

libcgi-application-plugin-authorization-perl_0.07-1.debian.tar.gz
libcgi-application-plugin-authorization-perl_0.07-1.dsc
libcgi-application-plugin-authorization-perl_0.07.orig-driver-activedirectory.tar.gz
libcgi-application-plugin-authorization-perl_0.07.orig.tar.gz

> If that's specified in
> current Perl policy, it should be fixed (and can be fixed without
> confusing users).

AFAIK the submodule names were just made up and can be shortened (in
fact, for the second package it's already a "made-up" name).

(Not that this gives us much room -- in the second case we're already
down to 84 characters ...)


Cheers,
gregor

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