FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Debian > Debian Development

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 03-04-2011, 11:49 AM
Josselin Mouette
 
Default Lintian check for missing desktop files?

Le vendredi 04 mars 2011 Ă* 12:30 +0000, Ben Hutchings a Ă©crit :
> On Fri, 2011-03-04 at 09:04 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > Le jeudi 03 mars 2011 Ă* 22:56 +0000, Ben Hutchings a Ă©crit :
> > > Surely they can filter out entries with Terminal: true?
> >
> > Yeah sure, and leave users without the possibility to add a launcher for
> > a terminal application?
>
> You can surely distinguish user-added launchers from package-provided
> launchers.

Not easily. Freedesktop specifies that there is a list of directories in
which to search, and it doesn’t sound right (nor simple) to make
exceptions based on pathnames.

> > The correct solution is to use NoDisplay=true for such applications.
> > This way they appear in the menu editor and can be enabled, but are not
> > displayed in the menu by default.
>
> Could you arrange to interpret Terminal=true as NoDisplay=true, then?

Doing that would mean it wouldn’t be possible to enable the application
in the menu editor.

> I'm just thinking that this policy of excluding terminal applications
> may not be appropriate for every desktop environment / window manager.
> (In particular, those without a menu editor that would allow overriding
> it.)

A possibility (for GNOME) would be to change gnome-menus-blacklist to
automatically exclude Terminal=true entries, but that would also make it
slower. But after all, this script is already the place where we deal
with uncooperative maintainers and their useless XDG menu entries.

--
.'`.
: :' : “You would need to ask a lawyer if you don't know
`. `' that a handshake of course makes a valid contract.”
`- -- J???rg Schilling


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 1299242983.404.101.camel@meh">http://lists.debian.org/1299242983.404.101.camel@meh
 
Old 03-04-2011, 01:15 PM
Ben Hutchings
 
Default Lintian check for missing desktop files?

On Fri, Mar 04, 2011 at 01:49:43PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le vendredi 04 mars 2011 Ă* 12:30 +0000, Ben Hutchings a Ă©crit :
> > On Fri, 2011-03-04 at 09:04 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > > Le jeudi 03 mars 2011 Ă* 22:56 +0000, Ben Hutchings a Ă©crit :
> > > > Surely they can filter out entries with Terminal: true?
> > >
> > > Yeah sure, and leave users without the possibility to add a launcher for
> > > a terminal application?
> >
> > You can surely distinguish user-added launchers from package-provided
> > launchers.
>
> Not easily. Freedesktop specifies that there is a list of directories in
> which to search, and it doesn’t sound right (nor simple) to make
> exceptions based on pathnames.
>
> > > The correct solution is to use NoDisplay=true for such applications.
> > > This way they appear in the menu editor and can be enabled, but are not
> > > displayed in the menu by default.
> >
> > Could you arrange to interpret Terminal=true as NoDisplay=true, then?
>
> Doing that would mean it wouldn’t be possible to enable the application
> in the menu editor.
[...]

I thought you said it was possible to override NoDisplay=true in the menu
editor.

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
We get into the habit of living before acquiring the habit of thinking.
- Albert Camus


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 20110304141540.GM19810@decadent.org.uk">http://lists.debian.org/20110304141540.GM19810@decadent.org.uk
 
Old 03-05-2011, 01:52 AM
Manoj Srivastava
 
Default Lintian check for missing desktop files?

On Fri, Mar 04 2011, Andreas Tille wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 03, 2011 at 09:27:07PM -0800, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> > (isn't it only icewm and ratpoison and blackbox we might 'lose' by
>> > simply killing the debian menu)
>>
>> And fvwm,
>
> I was a fan of fvwm for years and I even have configured my xfce with
> fvwm keycodes to have the same handling. However, if you ask me the
> typical fvwm user (if something like this exists at all) is most
> probably ignoring the menu and has rather configured his environment
> to fire up applications via key codes or fires up an xterm and types
> the command for an application. So while I do not really want to

I would be surprised if that were indeed the case. If you look
at the exemplar configuration file providedat fvwm.org, there is
extensive use of menus -- and for non debian folk, yes, they tend to
manually hard code application paths in menus; for Debian folks
upstream even ships the default system.fvwm2rc with:
Test (f /etc/X11/fvwm/menudefs.hook) + "Debian Menu" Popup /Debian
Test (f /etc/X11/fvwm/menudefs.hook) + "Re-read System Menu" Read "/etc/X11/fvwm/menudefs.hook"
Test (f /etc/X11/fvwm/menudefs.hook) + "Update My Debian Menu" PipeRead 'update-menus && echo "Read $./menudefs.hook"'

> loose fvwm menu in case there might be some constraints in a potential
> to be written desktop2menu I would not really regard this issue as
> urgent enough to stop what we would gain with overall proper desktop
> files.

That is a decision that the project can of course make, though I
think that would be a pity, and hope it shall not come to that.

Could you please remind me why, given that we currently have a
large number of menu files, that a menu2xdg script is not being
considered as the better path moving forward?

manoj
--
The difference between a career and a job is about 20 hours a week.
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta@acm.org> <http://www.golden-gryphon.com/>
4096R/C5779A1C E37E 5EC5 2A01 DA25 AD20 05B6 CF48 9438 C577 9A1C


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 87oc5qnurs.fsf@anzu.internal.golden-gryphon.com">http://lists.debian.org/87oc5qnurs.fsf@anzu.internal.golden-gryphon.com
 
Old 03-05-2011, 01:59 AM
Russ Allbery
 
Default Lintian check for missing desktop files?

Manoj Srivastava <srivasta@ieee.org> writes:

> Could you please remind me why, given that we currently have a
> large number of menu files, that a menu2xdg script is not being
> considered as the better path moving forward?

The menu and desktop category and classification systems are not
particularly compatible, upstream ships desktop files (and often handles
translation of desktop files) but Debian menu files are unique to us, and
the desktop files do support a few features that menu files don't.

--
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 87d3m6s25j.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu">http://lists.debian.org/87d3m6s25j.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu
 
Old 03-05-2011, 08:44 PM
Andreas Tille
 
Default Lintian check for missing desktop files?

On Fri, Mar 04, 2011 at 06:52:39PM -0800, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> > I was a fan of fvwm for years and I even have configured my xfce with
> > fvwm keycodes to have the same handling. However, if you ask me the
> > typical fvwm user (if something like this exists at all) is most
> > probably ignoring the menu and has rather configured his environment
> > to fire up applications via key codes or fires up an xterm and types
> > the command for an application. So while I do not really want to
>
> I would be surprised if that were indeed the case. If you look
> at the exemplar configuration file providedat fvwm.org, there is
> extensive use of menus -- and for non debian folk, yes, they tend to
> manually hard code application paths in menus; for Debian folks
> upstream even ships the default system.fvwm2rc with:
> Test (f /etc/X11/fvwm/menudefs.hook) + "Debian Menu" Popup /Debian
> Test (f /etc/X11/fvwm/menudefs.hook) + "Re-read System Menu" Read "/etc/X11/fvwm/menudefs.hook"
> Test (f /etc/X11/fvwm/menudefs.hook) + "Update My Debian Menu" PipeRead 'update-menus && echo "Read $./menudefs.hook"'

I do not question that these files *exist*. I simply question that they
are *used* in real life.

Kind regards

Andreas.

--
http://fam-tille.de


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 20110305214427.GC30138@an3as.eu">http://lists.debian.org/20110305214427.GC30138@an3as.eu
 
Old 03-05-2011, 11:22 PM
Manoj Srivastava
 
Default Lintian check for missing desktop files?

On Sat, Mar 05 2011, Andreas Tille wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 04, 2011 at 06:52:39PM -0800, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> > I was a fan of fvwm for years and I even have configured my xfce with
>> > fvwm keycodes to have the same handling. However, if you ask me the
>> > typical fvwm user (if something like this exists at all) is most
>> > probably ignoring the menu and has rather configured his environment
>> > to fire up applications via key codes or fires up an xterm and types
>> > the command for an application. So while I do not really want to
>>
>> I would be surprised if that were indeed the case. If you look
>> at the exemplar configuration file providedat fvwm.org, there is
>> extensive use of menus -- and for non debian folk, yes, they tend to
>> manually hard code application paths in menus; for Debian folks
>> upstream even ships the default system.fvwm2rc with:
>> Test (f /etc/X11/fvwm/menudefs.hook) + "Debian Menu" Popup /Debian
>> Test (f /etc/X11/fvwm/menudefs.hook) + "Re-read System Menu" Read "/etc/X11/fvwm/menudefs.hook"
>> Test (f /etc/X11/fvwm/menudefs.hook) + "Update My Debian Menu" PipeRead 'update-menus && echo "Read $./menudefs.hook"'
>
> I do not question that these files *exist*. I simply question that they
> are *used* in real life.

Fair enough. Would you, then, be satisfied by my answer that
they are used? I am a current real life user of fvwm, and I am on the
mailing lists for the fvwm project with other real life users and
developers; and my expeirnces, and the chatter on the list, do not lead
me to believe that menus are unused.

Do you have concrete data to add here, apart from speculation? I
would be interested in such data (as the once and perhaps future
maintainer of fvwm in Debian).

manoj
--
If I can have honesty, it's easier to overlook mistakes. Kirk, "Space
Seed", stardate 3141.9
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta@acm.org> <http://www.golden-gryphon.com/>
4096R/C5779A1C E37E 5EC5 2A01 DA25 AD20 05B6 CF48 9438 C577 9A1C


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 87fwr16qty.fsf@anzu.internal.golden-gryphon.com">http://lists.debian.org/87fwr16qty.fsf@anzu.internal.golden-gryphon.com
 
Old 03-06-2011, 05:24 PM
Andreas Tille
 
Default Lintian check for missing desktop files?

On Sat, Mar 05, 2011 at 04:22:01PM -0800, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> Do you have concrete data to add here, apart from speculation? I
> would be interested in such data (as the once and perhaps future
> maintainer of fvwm in Debian).

I have no idea whether it is pure speculation or wrong intuition. I
accept your argument as insider that the menu function in fvwm is
actually used by some users. However, the other arguments to prefer
desktop files over menu files remain valid unregarded this fact and
there was also a solution suggested in this thread for fvwm users.

So the point remains: We should start issuing lintian warnings about
missing desktop files where it makes sense to be able to start a
smooth transition. These files will be needed in any case if we
might want to get rid of Debian menu completely, provide conversions
or just leave menu files untouched.

Kind regards

Andreas.

--
http://fam-tille.de


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 20110306182434.GA14329@an3as.eu">http://lists.debian.org/20110306182434.GA14329@an3as.eu
 
Old 03-06-2011, 05:45 PM
Manoj Srivastava
 
Default Lintian check for missing desktop files?

On Sun, Mar 06 2011, Andreas Tille wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 05, 2011 at 04:22:01PM -0800, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> Do you have concrete data to add here, apart from speculation? I
>> would be interested in such data (as the once and perhaps future
>> maintainer of fvwm in Debian).
>
> I have no idea whether it is pure speculation or wrong intuition. I
> accept your argument as insider that the menu function in fvwm is
> actually used by some users.

Thanks

> However, the other arguments to prefer desktop files over menu files
> remain valid unregarded this fact and there was also a solution
> suggested in this thread for fvwm users.

Agreed.

> So the point remains: We should start issuing lintian warnings about
> missing desktop files where it makes sense to be able to start a
> smooth transition. These files will be needed in any case if we
> might want to get rid of Debian menu completely, provide conversions
> or just leave menu files untouched.

If I recall correctly, there was some objection to creating a
desktop file for every menu file that exists, have those objections
been withdrawn (if memory serves me, the objection was to the sheer
mass of menu files for applications and docs that did not make sense in
a GNOME/KDE menu like hack or worm)? If not, are there criteria lintian
will use to warn about some menu files not having a desktop file, and
not others?

manoj
--
Old programmers never die, they just become managers.
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta@acm.org> <http://www.golden-gryphon.com/>
4096R/C5779A1C E37E 5EC5 2A01 DA25 AD20 05B6 CF48 9438 C577 9A1C


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 874o7g6qat.fsf@anzu.internal.golden-gryphon.com">http://lists.debian.org/874o7g6qat.fsf@anzu.internal.golden-gryphon.com
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 01:42 PM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright ©2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org