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02-27-2011 06:49 AM

Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
 
Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
E.g., bug #615530, #615528.


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Lars Wirzenius 02-27-2011 07:02 AM

Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
 
On su, 2011-02-27 at 15:49 +0800, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
> Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
> E.g., bug #615530, #615528.

We don't care if something is temporarily uninstallable in unstable. The
only way to prevent that from happening would be to keep packages from
entering unstable unless all their dependencies are in unstable already,
and that would prevent bug fixes from coming into unstable faster. This
is important because a source package might produce several binary
packages, and some of them might both be fixing bugs and be
uninstallable.

Unstable is not guaranteed to work at any one time. Any missing
dependencies will get dealt with at release time if not earlier. An
attempt to make unstable work better would result in development having
more obstacles, and thus becoming slower. That would not be a good
thing.

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Paul Wise 02-27-2011 07:15 AM

Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
 
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi> wrote:

> We don't care if something is temporarily uninstallable in unstable. The
> only way to prevent that from happening would be to keep packages from
> entering unstable unless all their dependencies are in unstable already,
> and that would prevent bug fixes from coming into unstable faster. This
> is important because a source package might produce several binary
> packages, and some of them might both be fixing bugs and be
> uninstallable.

Something that might work would be to keep the old source/binary
packages around (as well as the new ones) until nothing depends on
them. IIRC the release team have the ability to (temporarily) have
multiple versions of a source package in testing, perhaps something
like that could be added for sid.

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bye,
pabs

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Andrei Popescu 02-27-2011 07:29 AM

Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
 
On Du, 27 feb 11, 16:15:40, Paul Wise wrote:
>
> Something that might work would be to keep the old source/binary
> packages around (as well as the new ones) until nothing depends on
> them. IIRC the release team have the ability to (temporarily) have
> multiple versions of a source package in testing, perhaps something
> like that could be added for sid.

Or just advise sid users to have testing in their sources.list ;)

Regards,
Andrei
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02-27-2011 07:42 AM

Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
 
Well OK, but can't the package owners get a friendly mail once a day
"yoo hoo Holmes, your package is now broken", lest they relax at the
beach totally unaware one day Auntie Nelda might suddenly have the urge
to use their package in a hurry?


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Michael Banck 02-27-2011 08:01 AM

Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
 
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 04:42:28PM +0800, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
> Well OK, but can't the package owners get a friendly mail once a day
> "yoo hoo Holmes, your package is now broken", lest they relax at the
> beach totally unaware one day Auntie Nelda might suddenly have the urge
> to use their package in a hurry?

If you use "Auntie Nelda" as synonym for "a regular user", we expect
those to either deal with the situation (e.g. using snapshot.debian.org)
themselves, or using testing.


Michael


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Stefano Zacchiroli 02-27-2011 08:29 AM

Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
 
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 03:49:43PM +0800, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
> Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming
> uninstallable? E.g., bug #615530, #615528.

We have tool to detect that and we periodically monitor the
uninstallable packages in the various suites using edos-distcheck:

http://edos.debian.net/

That is not enough to *prevent* the uninstallability, because uploads to
the archive are not transactional (e.g. upload and buildd delays). But
even if they were transactional, trying to prevent (temporary)
uninstallability issues would probably create more probably than it
solves. For instance, it will create a new kind of "transition", forcing
people to upload at the same time all the packages needed to avoid
temporary uninstallability (who might be maintained by different
maintainers ...). That might work in more controlled distributions, such
as emdebian who does that, but it's most likely too constraining to
apply to Debian, for little benefit.

An in between solution would be an optional upload time check that will
warn of the temporary uninstallability that an upload will induce. To
have that though, the best way would be support for upload time hooks in
dput. We've discussed that in the past---see #477919---but no one ended
up adding the needed support to dput.

Cheers.

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Philipp Kern 02-27-2011 09:07 AM

Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
 
On 2011-02-27, Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi> wrote:
>> We don't care if something is temporarily uninstallable in unstable. The
>> only way to prevent that from happening would be to keep packages from
>> entering unstable unless all their dependencies are in unstable already,
>> and that would prevent bug fixes from coming into unstable faster. This
>> is important because a source package might produce several binary
>> packages, and some of them might both be fixing bugs and be
>> uninstallable.
> Something that might work would be to keep the old source/binary
> packages around (as well as the new ones) until nothing depends on
> them. IIRC the release team have the ability to (temporarily) have
> multiple versions of a source package in testing, perhaps something
> like that could be added for sid.

What we do for some transitions is editing the source package a library package
comes from, so that both library revisions (libfoo1 and libfoo2) are considered
eligible to stay in testing at the same time. This eases the pain of some
transitions. For that to work in sid, as library removal is manual anyway, you
need to convince ftp-masters not to remove them when there are still quite a
bunch of reverse dependencies. Given that NBS removals should show the rdeps
too, it'd only be a policy decision.

Kind regards
Philipp Kern


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Ben Finney 02-27-2011 11:48 AM

Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
 
jidanni@jidanni.org writes:

> Well OK, but can't the package owners get a friendly mail once a day
> "yoo hoo Holmes, your package is now broken"

They can monitor the package's QA page.

> lest they relax at the beach totally unaware one day Auntie Nelda
> might suddenly have the urge to use their package in a hurry?

Why is Auntie Nelda using the unstable repository? Is she comfortable
running an OS from a repository with no promises about stability? If
not, who advised her to do that?

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` disgraces anyone who would claim it.” —Sam Harris, _The End of |
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Ben Finney


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Holger Levsen 02-28-2011 11:53 AM

Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
 
Hi,

On Sonntag, 27. Februar 2011, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> Or just advise sid users to have testing in their sources.list ;)

is that something worth to be put on http://www.debian.org/releases/ or
http://www.debian.org/releases/sid/ ?

It absolutly sounds reasonable to me but I'm not tracking unstable as much as
other people here ;) (Else this mail would have been a wishlist bug...)


cheers,
Holger


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