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Old 02-27-2011, 10:04 PM
Peter Samuelson
 
Default Bug#615476: general: many binaries are linked with non-existent libtiff.so.3 library

[sergey]
> It is a good reason to think about Debian's (or GNU/Linux) usability and
> ways to increase it.
>
> It all was about installing software system-wide by administrator.

Well, putting /usr/local/lib in the default library search path, and
upstream software using /usr/local/lib by default, are no coincidence.
The point is that if you build a binary on your own, and it needs to
use a library you also built on your own, it is quite nice that you
don't have to provide an explicit library search path (RPATH inside the
binary, or LD_LIBRARY_PATH variable at runtime).

Unfortunately (from your perspective) there is not a way to configure a
default library search path differently for binaries in different
places. So if you want /usr/local/bin binaries to see /usr/local/lib
by default (that's what Debian and other Linux systems do, on purpose),
then all your system binaries will see them too. Anyway, it's not a
bug or even really a design flaw (IMO).
--
Peter Samuelson | org-tld!p12n!peter | http://p12n.org/



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Old 02-27-2011, 11:18 PM
Olaf van der Spek
 
Default Bug#615476: general: many binaries are linked with non-existent libtiff.so.3 library

On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 12:04 AM, Peter Samuelson <peter@p12n.org> wrote:
> Unfortunately (from your perspective) there is not a way to configure a
> default library search path differently for binaries in different
> places. *So if you want /usr/local/bin binaries to see /usr/local/lib
> by default (that's what Debian and other Linux systems do, on purpose),
> then all your system binaries will see them too. *Anyway, it's not a
> bug or even really a design flaw (IMO).

But there is an ordering choice. local has priority.


--
Olaf



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Old 02-27-2011, 11:25 PM
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
 
Default Bug#615476: general: many binaries are linked with non-existent libtiff.so.3 library

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011, Olaf van der Spek wrote:
> > places. *So if you want /usr/local/bin binaries to see /usr/local/lib
> > by default (that's what Debian and other Linux systems do, on purpose),
> > then all your system binaries will see them too. *Anyway, it's not a
> > bug or even really a design flaw (IMO).
>
> But there is an ordering choice. local has priority.

By default, we assume the local administrator knows what he is doing.

That is not going to change.

--
"One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
Henrique Holschuh



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Old 02-27-2011, 11:36 PM
Olaf van der Spek
 
Default Bug#615476: general: many binaries are linked with non-existent libtiff.so.3 library

On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 1:25 AM, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
<hmh@debian.org> wrote:
>> But there is an ordering choice. local has priority.
>
> By default, we assume the local administrator knows what he is doing.
>
> That is not going to change.

Sure. But Sergey has a good point: why are there no bin and lib inside
/home so normal users can safely install software without risking
system-wide things to go wrong?


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Old 02-28-2011, 12:01 AM
Andreas Rottmann
 
Default Bug#615476: general: many binaries are linked with non-existent libtiff.so.3 library

Olaf van der Spek <olafvdspek@gmail.com> writes:

> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 1:25 AM, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
> <hmh@debian.org> wrote:
>>> But there is an ordering choice. local has priority.
>>
>> By default, we assume the local administrator knows what he is doing.
>>
>> That is not going to change.
>
> Sure. But Sergey has a good point: why are there no bin and lib inside
> /home so normal users can safely install software without risking
> system-wide things to go wrong?
>
Most software allows this without issues -- just run "./configure
--prefix=$HOME". You need to adjust $PATH and $LD_LIBRARY_PATH inside
your shell startup scripts, and you're done.

I'd however strongly suggest not adding any additional directories in
$HOME by default (e.g. via /etc/skel.d) -- how to organize this should
be the users' choice. I for example use
--prefix="$HOME/.system/stow/<PACKAGE>" for each individual software
package, so I can quickly remove and reinstate them using GNU
Stow. Having ~/lib and ~/share, ~/bin, etc. unconditionally created in
my home directory would just be useless clutter.

Regards, Rotty



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Old 02-28-2011, 01:43 AM
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
 
Default Bug#615476: general: many binaries are linked with non-existent libtiff.so.3 library

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011, Olaf van der Spek wrote:
> Sure. But Sergey has a good point: why are there no bin and lib inside
> /home so normal users can safely install software without risking

AFAIK, there are strong security concerns. You cannot have unprotected
directories in the default linker paths.

rpath exists for a reason. Use it. We even have an rpath editor,
package chrpath, for programs that don't use it automatically when you
tell them they're not going to be installed in a *default* system
directory like /usr/local/{bin,sbin,lib}.

Actually, we usually use it to *remove* bogus rpath, but hey, it would
be a poor tool if it couldn't be used to add a proper rpath

--
"One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
Henrique Holschuh



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Old 02-28-2011, 05:38 PM
sergey
 
Default Bug#615476: general: many binaries are linked with non-existent libtiff.so.3 library

> Most software allows this without issues -- just run "./configure
> --prefix=$HOME". You need to adjust $PATH and $LD_LIBRARY_PATH inside
> your shell startup scripts, and you're done.

This will not work. Let's imagine that user have installed some program A
in $HOME. Then user set $LD_LIBRARY_PATH for program A.
Suppoze that A calls some Debian's program B (with "system()" C function
for example). In this case Debian's program B will catch $LD_LIBRARY_PATH
which is incorrect for B, but correct for A.

How many things will be bad if we add rpath=/lib:/usr/lib or rpath=$DEB_LD_LIBRARY_PATH
to all Debian binaries? :-)

By the way: does Debian have step-by-step instructions for system-wide
and user-only installation of non-Debian programs? It is common tasks for any
operating system. So solutions for this tasks must be easy, comfortable
and well-documented.

Regards, Sergey.



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Old 03-01-2011, 08:16 AM
Vincent Danjean
 
Default Bug#615476: general: many binaries are linked with non-existent libtiff.so.3 library

Hi,

On 28/02/2011 02:01, Andreas Rottmann wrote:
> Most software allows this without issues -- just run "./configure
> --prefix=$HOME". You need to adjust $PATH and $LD_LIBRARY_PATH inside
> your shell startup scripts, and you're done.
>
> I'd however strongly suggest not adding any additional directories in
> $HOME by default (e.g. via /etc/skel.d) -- how to organize this should
> be the users' choice. I for example use
> --prefix="$HOME/.system/stow/<PACKAGE>" for each individual software
> package, so I can quickly remove and reinstate them using GNU
> Stow. Having ~/lib and ~/share, ~/bin, etc. unconditionally created in
> my home directory would just be useless clutter.

I also use stow but in a slightly different way : with your setup,
the software has the knowledge of the stow directory structure.
For examples, it would search its plugins in
$HOME/.system/stow/<PACKAGE>/share/<PACKAGE>
If I try to install other plugins with stow in
$HOME/.system/stow/<PLUGIN_PACKAGE>/share/<PACKAGE>
they won't be found (nor in $HOME/.system/share/<PACKAGE>
where symlinks are created by stow).

So, I configure my software with :
./configure --prefix="$HOME/.system" ...
But I install them with :
make install DESTDIR=$HOME/.system/stow/<PACKAGE>
mv $HOME/.system/stow/<PACKAGE>/$HOME/.system/* $HOME/.system/stow/<PACKAGE>
rmdir --parents $HOME/.system/stow/<PACKAGE>/$HOME/.system
cd $HOME/.system/stow/
stow <PACKAGE>

Regards,
Vincent

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Old 03-02-2011, 06:26 PM
Tollef Fog Heen
 
Default Bug#615476: general: many binaries are linked with non-existent libtiff.so.3 library

]] Henrique de Moraes Holschuh

| Actually, we usually use it to *remove* bogus rpath, but hey, it would
| be a poor tool if it couldn't be used to add a proper rpath

It doesn't know how to add an rpath, just change or remove one. Patches
gladly accepted. :-)

--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are



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Old 03-04-2011, 07:15 PM
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
 
Default Bug#615476: general: many binaries are linked with non-existent libtiff.so.3 library

On Wed, 02 Mar 2011, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> ]] Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
>
> | Actually, we usually use it to *remove* bogus rpath, but hey, it would
> | be a poor tool if it couldn't be used to add a proper rpath
>
> It doesn't know how to add an rpath, just change or remove one. Patches
> gladly accepted. :-)

Erk. Heh, what do you know, the world *really* is biased against rpath :-)

--
"One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
Henrique Holschuh


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