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Old 02-05-2008, 02:55 PM
Alberto Garcia
 
Default Bug#464169: ITP: vagalume -- A GTK+-based Last.fm client

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Alberto Garcia <agarcia@igalia.com>


* Package name : vagalume
Version : 0.5
Upstream Author : Alberto Garcia <agarcia@igalia.com>
* URL : http://people.igalia.com/berto/
* License : GPL 3
Programming Lang: C
Description : A GTK+-based Last.fm client

Vagalume is a Last.fm client designed for the Gnome desktop
environment. It's small and provides the basic Last.fm features, such
as scrobbling, tags, recommendations, etc. Vagalume is also designed
to work in the Maemo platform, used by some Nokia devices such as the
Nokia 770, N800 and N810

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 4.0
APT prefers stable
APT policy: (500, 'stable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.23.14
Locale: LANG=pt_PT, LC_CTYPE=pt_PT (charmap=ISO-8859-15) (ignored: LC_ALL set to pt_PT@euro)



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Old 02-06-2008, 04:56 AM
Christian Perrier
 
Default Bug#464169: ITP: vagalume -- A GTK+-based Last.fm client

Quoting Alberto Garcia (agarcia@igalia.com):
> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> Owner: Alberto Garcia <agarcia@igalia.com>
>
>
> * Package name : vagalume
> Version : 0.5
> Upstream Author : Alberto Garcia <agarcia@igalia.com>
> * URL : http://people.igalia.com/berto/
> * License : GPL 3
> Programming Lang: C
> Description : A GTK+-based Last.fm client

"Last.fm" isn't really clear for anybody. I suggest using a more
generic description and somehow say this is related to audio/media
playing.

Also drop the leading article, of course

"graphical GTK+-based client for Last.fm media service"


...or something similar, maybe. I'm not entirely sure of the most
appropiate description of Last.fm, not being a very active user there,
indeed.
 
Old 02-06-2008, 07:59 AM
Alberto Garcia
 
Default Bug#464169: ITP: vagalume -- A GTK+-based Last.fm client

On Wed, Feb 06, 2008 at 06:56:05AM +0100, Christian Perrier wrote:

> > Description : A GTK+-based Last.fm client
>
> "Last.fm" isn't really clear for anybody. I suggest using a more
> generic description and somehow say this is related to audio/media
> playing.

Well, you're right, I should update the full description too.

> Also drop the leading article, of course
>
> "graphical GTK+-based client for Last.fm media service"

Is it necessary to say it's graphical provided that it's based on
GTK+?

How about ...

"Graphical GTK+-based client for the Last.fm online radio"

Thanks for your suggestions

--
Alberto García González
http://people.igalia.com/berto/


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Old 02-06-2008, 03:57 PM
Christian Perrier
 
Default Bug#464169: ITP: vagalume -- A GTK+-based Last.fm client

Quoting Alberto Garcia (agarcia@igalia.com):
> On Wed, Feb 06, 2008 at 06:56:05AM +0100, Christian Perrier wrote:
>
> > > Description : A GTK+-based Last.fm client
> >
> > "Last.fm" isn't really clear for anybody. I suggest using a more
> > generic description and somehow say this is related to audio/media
> > playing.
>
> Well, you're right, I should update the full description too.
>
> > Also drop the leading article, of course
> >
> > "graphical GTK+-based client for Last.fm media service"
>
> Is it necessary to say it's graphical provided that it's based on
> GTK+?


"GTK+" is jargon..:-)
 
Old 02-06-2008, 04:00 PM
Alberto Garcia
 
Default Bug#464169: ITP: vagalume -- A GTK+-based Last.fm client

On Wed, Feb 06, 2008 at 09:59:30AM +0100, Alberto Garcia wrote:

> > Also drop the leading article, of course
> > "graphical GTK+-based client for Last.fm media service"
>
> Is it necessary to say it's graphical provided that it's based on
> GTK+?
>
> How about ...
>
> "Graphical GTK+-based client for the Last.fm online radio"

Sorry, I forgot to remove the redundant 'Graphical':

"GTK+-based client for the Last.fm online radio"

or

"GTK+-based client for the Last.fm online radio and social network"

--
Alberto García González
http://people.igalia.com/berto/


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Old 02-06-2008, 07:07 PM
Alberto Garcia
 
Default Bug#464169: ITP: vagalume -- A GTK+-based Last.fm client

On Wed, Feb 06, 2008 at 05:57:21PM +0100, Christian Perrier wrote:

> > > "graphical GTK+-based client for Last.fm media service"
> > Is it necessary to say it's graphical provided that it's based on
> > GTK+?
> "GTK+" is jargon..:-)

Then we'd need to change quite a few package descriptions :-)

$ dpkg -l | grep -i gtk

Not to mention all other packages with similar technical words in
their descriptions: ncurses, Qt, PHP, etc.

Also, if a user doesn't know what GTK+ is, he/she probably won't
expect a radio player being non-graphical ...

There are very few non-graphical Last.fm clients around, Vagalume is
not special for that

--
Alberto García González
http://people.igalia.com/berto/


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Old 02-07-2008, 03:45 AM
Christian Perrier
 
Default Bug#464169: ITP: vagalume -- A GTK+-based Last.fm client

Quoting Alberto Garcia (agarcia@igalia.com):
> On Wed, Feb 06, 2008 at 05:57:21PM +0100, Christian Perrier wrote:
>
> > > > "graphical GTK+-based client for Last.fm media service"
> > > Is it necessary to say it's graphical provided that it's based on
> > > GTK+?
> > "GTK+" is jargon..:-)
>
> Then we'd need to change quite a few package descriptions :-)

Yes. Most package description aren't really great and forget that they
should be targeted for end users. The Developers Reference gives
numerous hints about the Right Way to write package descriptions (and
not only when it makes recommendations about syntax)

>
> $ dpkg -l | grep -i gtk
>
> Not to mention all other packages with similar technical words in
> their descriptions: ncurses, Qt, PHP, etc.
>
> Also, if a user doesn't know what GTK+ is, he/she probably won't
> expect a radio player being non-graphical ...
>
> There are very few non-graphical Last.fm clients around, Vagalume is
> not special for that


Let me clarify.

Saying that something is GTK-based is probably meaningful for the
average geek. It means nothing for the average user. This is what I
call jargon.

Our package descriptions should help all users to answer the simple
questions "what is this package good for?" and "Do I need this
package?"

Being GTK-based is not the most important mention for this ad we
shouldn't assume that everybody knows that it means "graphical" or
"GUI".

That doesn't necessarily mean to *remove* GTK (it has some meaning for
some of our users....and some even decide whether a package is good
for them, based on this)...but we shouldn't assume this is *enough*.

(not to mention debtags, by the way)
 
Old 02-07-2008, 11:24 AM
Ron Johnson
 
Default Bug#464169: ITP: vagalume -- A GTK+-based Last.fm client

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Hash: SHA1

On 02/06/08 22:45, Christian Perrier wrote:
> Quoting Alberto Garcia (agarcia@igalia.com):
[snip]
>>
>> Also, if a user doesn't know what GTK+ is, he/she probably won't
>> expect a radio player being non-graphical ...
>>
>> There are very few non-graphical Last.fm clients around, Vagalume is
>> not special for that
>
>
> Let me clarify.
>
> Saying that something is GTK-based is probably meaningful for the
> average geek. It means nothing for the average user. This is what I
> call jargon.

I've *got* to disagree here. If you're taking the responsibility to
search for and install apps, it is incumbent upon you to have *some*
basic knowledge of your system. Among the most important is whether
you have a GNOME/GTK or KDE/Qt system, and whether you run Stable,
Testing or Sid.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

PETA - People Eating Tasty Animals
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Old 02-08-2008, 01:38 AM
Alberto Garcia
 
Default Bug#464169: ITP: vagalume -- A GTK+-based Last.fm client

On Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 05:45:42AM +0100, Christian Perrier wrote:

> Saying that something is GTK-based is probably meaningful for the
> average geek. It means nothing for the average user. This is what I
> call jargon.
>
> Our package descriptions should help all users to answer the simple
> questions "what is this package good for?" and "Do I need this
> package?"

I understand your point, but:

* The average user probably won't expect a Last.fm client being
non-graphical (not even a geek would expect that unless stated
otherwise).

* Other graphical last.fm clients in Debian (last-exit, lastfm -this
is the official one-) don't say that they're graphical in their
descriptions. And well, I'd bet that it applies to basically almost
every graphical program in Debian.

* We can say that in the full description.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against saying that Vagalume is
a graphical Last.fm client, it's just that I don't think it's that
remarkable in this case. IMHO the short description should just tell
the users what a package is for and why they should choose it instead
of another one.

And if I had to select the most relevant things about Vagalume I'd say
(in no particular order):

a) It's a Last.fm client
b) It's based on GTK+
c) It's small and lightweight
d) It's designed to work in the Maemo platform
e) It's free software

d) and e) are probably not significant in this case.

So we have:

"A small GTK+-based client for the Last.fm online radio"
"A GTK+-based client for the Last.fm online radio"
"A small client for the Last.fm online radio"

--
Alberto García González
http://people.igalia.com/berto/


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Old 02-08-2008, 05:22 AM
Christian Perrier
 
Default Bug#464169: ITP: vagalume -- A GTK+-based Last.fm client

Quoting Alberto Garcia (agarcia@igalia.com):

> So we have:
>
> "A small GTK+-based client for the Last.fm online radio"
> "A GTK+-based client for the Last.fm online radio"
> "A small client for the Last.fm online radio"


I'd go for the second choice (you half-convinced me, guys)....without
the leading article of course:

GTK+-based client for the Last.fm online radio service

(adding "service" is a last minute idea by /me: optional)

I think that "-based" makes the difference: geeks will understand and
bubull^W clueless users will understand this is technical stuff they
don't understand but will when they're grown up enough....
 

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