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Old 07-22-2010, 08:51 PM
Stefano Zacchiroli
 
Default constantly usable testing

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 03:10:16PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> I've noticed that linking to this page seems to kill threads, which is
> not my intent, but: http://kitenet.net/~joey/code/debian/cut/
>
> The idea still seems reasonable to me, and the work required, beyond
> what is already done, not too much. Shame that nobody has tried to do it
> yet.

I've always found CUT to be an interesting (thought) experiment.

A particular nice feature of how you present it, is that it's modular
enough to be tried with little impact on the rest of Debian; as you
observe: « most of which [needed ingredients] are already being done on
a best-effort basis ». So, in principle, nothing stops you or anyone
else to actually form a CUT team and experiment with the idea. That's
probably the only way forward from CUT-is-a-thread-killer to have data
that support the feasibility / user appreciation of the idea.

Have you ever actually tried to call people to arms and *form* the CUT
team? (Or maybe that was exactly the point of your mail …)

Cheers.

--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...........| ..: |.... Je dis tu * tous ceux que j'aime
 
Old 07-23-2010, 12:00 AM
Joey Hess
 
Default constantly usable testing

Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> Have you ever actually tried to call people to arms and *form* the CUT
> team?

No. But it's been 3 years, so please don't wait for me to do it.

--
see shy jo
 
Old 07-23-2010, 03:19 AM
Joerg Jaspert
 
Default constantly usable testing

>> Have you ever actually tried to call people to arms and *form* the CUT
>> team?
> No. But it's been 3 years, so please don't wait for me to do it.

JFTR, with the great new machine ftpmaster got, we actually have the
resources to run such a thing (archive wise, manpower is
different). That is, we can (easy enough) provide you with an archive
section to "play" in and see if the idea works out.
If there is someone interested in doing the main work on it (ftpmaster
only wants the archive side of it), you know where we are.

--
bye, Joerg
I think there's a world market for about five computers.
-- attr. Thomas J. Watson (Chairman of the Board, IBM), 1943


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Old 07-23-2010, 06:16 AM
Andrei Popescu
 
Default constantly usable testing

On Jo, 22 iul 10, 22:51:32, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 03:10:16PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> > I've noticed that linking to this page seems to kill threads, which is
> > not my intent, but: http://kitenet.net/~joey/code/debian/cut/
> >
> > The idea still seems reasonable to me, and the work required, beyond
> > what is already done, not too much. Shame that nobody has tried to do it
> > yet.
>
> I've always found CUT to be an interesting (thought) experiment.
>
> A particular nice feature of how you present it, is that it's modular
> enough to be tried with little impact on the rest of Debian; as you
> observe: most of which [needed ingredients] are already being done on
> a best-effort basis . So, in principle, nothing stops you or anyone
> else to actually form a CUT team and experiment with the idea. That's
> probably the only way forward from CUT-is-a-thread-killer to have data
> that support the feasibility / user appreciation of the idea.

For me it's quite obvious that CUT would happen if the relevant teams:
(Security, Release, d-i, ...) would have enough manpower.

One possible approach would be asking through d-i if the user wants
"plain" testing or a CUT snapshot, and then set the apropiate pinning.
Security updates would not be possible via unstable migrations (as it is
for testing), but I already mentioned the security team needs more
people for this.

And there's no need to call CUT differently, just call it beta1, beta2
and rc1, rc2, ... as soon as testing is frozen. With a proper
announcement/press release users will jump to using it

Regards,
Andrei
--
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
 
Old 07-23-2010, 08:27 AM
Lucas Nussbaum
 
Default constantly usable testing

On 23/07/10 at 09:16 +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Jo, 22 iul 10, 22:51:32, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 03:10:16PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> > > I've noticed that linking to this page seems to kill threads, which is
> > > not my intent, but: http://kitenet.net/~joey/code/debian/cut/
> > >
> > > The idea still seems reasonable to me, and the work required, beyond
> > > what is already done, not too much. Shame that nobody has tried to do it
> > > yet.
> >
> > I've always found CUT to be an interesting (thought) experiment.
> >
> > A particular nice feature of how you present it, is that it's modular
> > enough to be tried with little impact on the rest of Debian; as you
> > observe: most of which [needed ingredients] are already being done on
> > a best-effort basis . So, in principle, nothing stops you or anyone
> > else to actually form a CUT team and experiment with the idea. That's
> > probably the only way forward from CUT-is-a-thread-killer to have data
> > that support the feasibility / user appreciation of the idea.
>
> For me it's quite obvious that CUT would happen if the relevant teams:
> (Security, Release, d-i, ...) would have enough manpower.

It depends on the implementation of CUT. One way to see it would be like
Joey's idea, improving the current testing suite.

Another way to see it would be as a distinct suite (similar to Raphael
Hertzog's Working suite, described in his 2002 DPL platform -
http://www.debian.org/vote/2002/platforms/raphael#release1). Then we
would have "release managers" for this suite as well, similar to the
"testing release managers", who would work on keeping this suite in a
good shape according to a slightly different set of criterias than the
testing RM.

L.


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