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Old 05-23-2010, 03:39 AM
William Pitcock
 
Default lilo removal in squeeze (or, "please test grub2")

Hi,

After some discussion about lilo on #debian-devel in IRC, it has pretty
much been determined that kernel sizes have crossed the line past where
lilo can reliably determine the payload size.

This bug *can* be fixed, but not without a significant rewrite of the
way that lilo's stage2 loader code works. Given that there is no active
upstream and that the Debian lilo package carries many patches for bug
fixes that are alleviated by standardizing on grub2, this seems like the
best option for Debian.

This means that users should *test grub2 extensively* before Squeeze is
released so that any issues can be resolved now.

As for removal, the following things need to be done:

(1) The release notes need to be updated to reflect that lilo is no
longer a bootloader option;
(2) The debian-installer team needs to remove the lilo-installer udeb;
(3) The ftpmasters need to remove lilo from unstable (which will be done
using the appropriate bug filing once the above steps are made);
(4) Users need to test grub2 now.

William
 
Old 05-23-2010, 03:39 AM
William Pitcock
 
Default lilo removal in squeeze (or, "please test grub2")

Hi,

After some discussion about lilo on #debian-devel in IRC, it has pretty
much been determined that kernel sizes have crossed the line past where
lilo can reliably determine the payload size.

This bug *can* be fixed, but not without a significant rewrite of the
way that lilo's stage2 loader code works. Given that there is no active
upstream and that the Debian lilo package carries many patches for bug
fixes that are alleviated by standardizing on grub2, this seems like the
best option for Debian.

This means that users should *test grub2 extensively* before Squeeze is
released so that any issues can be resolved now.

As for removal, the following things need to be done:

(1) The release notes need to be updated to reflect that lilo is no
longer a bootloader option;
(2) The debian-installer team needs to remove the lilo-installer udeb;
(3) The ftpmasters need to remove lilo from unstable (which will be done
using the appropriate bug filing once the above steps are made);
(4) Users need to test grub2 now.

William
 
Old 05-23-2010, 04:31 AM
 
Default lilo removal in squeeze (or, "please test grub2")

On Sat, 22 May 2010 22:39:52 -0500
William Pitcock <nenolod@dereferenced.org> wrote:

>
> As for removal, the following things need to be done:
>
> (1) The release notes need to be updated to reflect that lilo is no
> longer a bootloader option;
> (2) The debian-installer team needs to remove the lilo-installer udeb;
> (3) The ftpmasters need to remove lilo from unstable (which will be
> done using the appropriate bug filing once the above steps are made);
> (4) Users need to test grub2 now.
>

grub is really, really, really annoying. if grub2 is going to be the
standard, and more importantly lilo will no longer be an option, is it
possible that the documentation could be updated so that mere mortals
can understand how it works and be able to modify the boot sequence
without having to be #$%@! bootloader experts ?

The last time I tried to figure out how to configure grub I removed it
and installed lilo, and I'm hardly the only one who has that reaction.

*sigh*. I guess it's time to take one for the team...

Brian


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Old 05-23-2010, 05:47 AM
Stan Hoeppner
 
Default lilo removal in squeeze (or, "please test grub2")

briand@aracnet.com put forth on 5/22/2010 11:31 PM:

> The last time I tried to figure out how to configure grub I removed it
> and installed lilo, and I'm hardly the only one who has that reaction.

+1

> *sigh*. I guess it's time to take one for the team...

No, resist forced conformity. This is Linux. We have multiple choice with
everything else, so we should darn well have our choice of boot loader.

--
Stan


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Old 05-23-2010, 06:05 AM
Sven Joachim
 
Default lilo removal in squeeze (or, "please test grub2")

On 2010-05-23 07:47 +0200, Stan Hoeppner wrote:

> No, resist forced conformity. This is Linux. We have multiple choice with
> everything else, so we should darn well have our choice of boot loader.

You're welcome to work on lilo so that can cope with the increasing size
of kernel images and initramfs.

Sven


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Old 05-23-2010, 06:23 AM
Teemu Likonen
 
Default lilo removal in squeeze (or, "please test grub2")

* 2010-05-23 08:05 (+0200), Sven Joachim wrote:

> On 2010-05-23 07:47 +0200, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
>> No, resist forced conformity. This is Linux. We have multiple choice
>> with everything else, so we should darn well have our choice of boot
>> loader.
>
> You're welcome to work on lilo so that can cope with the increasing
> size of kernel images and initramfs.

Yes, and to inform readers of debian-user here is the original message
and explanation by William Pitcock:

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.boot/117604


--
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them. I can't read all the list mail.


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Old 05-23-2010, 11:11 AM
Cyril Brulebois
 
Default lilo removal in squeeze (or, "please test grub2")

(Dropping -release, which isn't a discussion list.)

William Pitcock <nenolod@dereferenced.org> (22/05/2010):
> Given that there is no active upstream and that the Debian lilo
> package carries many patches for bug fixes that are alleviated by
> standardizing on grub2, this seems like the best option for Debian.

Speaking of upstream and bug fixing, what about that?
http://bugs.debian.org/src:grub2

> This means that users should *test grub2 extensively* before Squeeze
> is released so that any issues can be resolved now.

There should also be some folks fixing the discovered issues.

Mraw,
KiBi.
 
Old 05-23-2010, 11:11 AM
Cyril Brulebois
 
Default lilo removal in squeeze (or, "please test grub2")

(Dropping -release, which isn't a discussion list.)

William Pitcock <nenolod@dereferenced.org> (22/05/2010):
> Given that there is no active upstream and that the Debian lilo
> package carries many patches for bug fixes that are alleviated by
> standardizing on grub2, this seems like the best option for Debian.

Speaking of upstream and bug fixing, what about that?
http://bugs.debian.org/src:grub2

> This means that users should *test grub2 extensively* before Squeeze
> is released so that any issues can be resolved now.

There should also be some folks fixing the discovered issues.

Mraw,
KiBi.
 
Old 05-23-2010, 11:42 AM
Kurt Roeckx
 
Default lilo removal in squeeze (or, "please test grub2")

On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 01:11:48PM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> William Pitcock <nenolod@dereferenced.org> (22/05/2010):
> > This means that users should *test grub2 extensively* before Squeeze
> > is released so that any issues can be resolved now.
>
> There should also be some folks fixing the discovered issues.

grub2 currently seems to be having 18 RC bugs, plus a whole bunch
of merged bugs, while lilo only has 1 RC bug.

I think the difference is that lilo will probably not work
for a lot of people while grub2 does work for a lot of people.
And I understand that Debian's lilo maintainer basicly doesn't want
to become upstream and rewrite everything when there is an
alternative.

But I agree that a call for extensive testing would be better if
number of RC bugs would be a lot lower.


Kurt


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Old 05-23-2010, 11:42 AM
Kurt Roeckx
 
Default lilo removal in squeeze (or, "please test grub2")

On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 01:11:48PM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> William Pitcock <nenolod@dereferenced.org> (22/05/2010):
> > This means that users should *test grub2 extensively* before Squeeze
> > is released so that any issues can be resolved now.
>
> There should also be some folks fixing the discovered issues.

grub2 currently seems to be having 18 RC bugs, plus a whole bunch
of merged bugs, while lilo only has 1 RC bug.

I think the difference is that lilo will probably not work
for a lot of people while grub2 does work for a lot of people.
And I understand that Debian's lilo maintainer basicly doesn't want
to become upstream and rewrite everything when there is an
alternative.

But I agree that a call for extensive testing would be better if
number of RC bugs would be a lot lower.


Kurt


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