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Old 05-20-2010, 10:44 PM
Roger Lynn
 
Default UPG and the default umask

On 19/05/10 22:20, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
> btw: What happened to the idea of movin umask completely away from
> /etc/profile?
> I mean regardless of the discussion about UPGs and which value is the
> "best" default for umask, I found it to be a good idea to drop it there.

This is a good question. When I was changing my umask to 0002 a few
months ago web searches told me to look in login.defs, which told me to
use pam. So eventually I worked out how to change the umask in pam, but
it still didn't have any affect. It was only have further searching that
I discovered it was being overridden by /etc/profile.

Roger


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Old 05-21-2010, 01:43 AM
Mike Bird
 
Default UPG and the default umask

On Thu May 20 2010 07:24:16 Michael Banck wrote:
> The problem is that most of your mails started with "OMG Debian will
> compromise security, you all suck" or a paraphrasing thereof, so most
> people didn't bother to read your mails in full and never actually read
> a reasonable argument why the default umask should not be changed for
> UPG setups.

Michael,

Those of us who actually administer Linux systems realize
that the proponents of this change are (a) way out of their
depth so that (b) they cannot forsee the consequences of
their actions yet (c) they have the power to carry their
actions through and (d) they haven't listened to reason yet.

So we just watch and laugh sadly and pray that we can keep
our systems secure. Debian has survived worse and it will
survive this mess too.

--Mike Bird


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Old 05-21-2010, 06:02 AM
Petter Reinholdtsen
 
Default UPG and the default umask

[Mike Bird]
> Those of us who actually administer Linux systems realize that the
> proponents of this change are (a) way out of their depth so that (b)
> they cannot forsee the consequences of their actions yet (c) they
> have the power to carry their actions through and (d) they haven't
> listened to reason yet.

Must be nice to be so confident about the errors of others.

Anyway, just as an interesting comment, this is what the RHEL 5 manual
have to say about user private groups and the default in RedHat and
Fedora:
<URL: http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-5-manual/Deployment_Guide-en-US/s1-users-groups-private-groups.html >.

Happy hacking,
--
Petter Reinholdtsen


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Old 05-21-2010, 06:19 AM
Ben Finney
 
Default UPG and the default umask

Mike Bird <mgb-debian@yosemite.net> writes:

> Those of us who actually administer Linux systems realize that the
> proponents of this change are (a) way out of their depth so that (b)
> they cannot forsee the consequences of their actions yet (c) they have
> the power to carry their actions through and (d) they haven't listened
> to reason yet.

Out of interest, how would you propose an independent observer should
distinguish between these two cases:

* The package maintainers respond to specific expressed complaints,
then ignore the complaints and fail to listen to reason.

* The package maintainers respond to specific expressed complaints,
then consider the complaints and reject them on the basis of reason.

How would the independent observer tell which has occurred?

--
“Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?” “I think so, |
` Brain, but if we have nothing to fear but fear itself, why does |
_o__) Elanore Roosevelt wear that spooky mask?” —_Pinky and The Brain_ |
Ben Finney


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Old 05-21-2010, 08:23 AM
Michael Banck
 
Default UPG and the default umask

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 04:19:02PM +1000, Ben Finney wrote:
> Mike Bird <mgb-debian@yosemite.net> writes:
>
> > Those of us who actually administer Linux systems realize that the
> > proponents of this change are (a) way out of their depth so that (b)
> > they cannot forsee the consequences of their actions yet (c) they have
> > the power to carry their actions through and (d) they haven't listened
> > to reason yet.
>
> Out of interest, how would you propose an independent observer should
> distinguish between these two cases:
>
> * The package maintainers respond to specific expressed complaints,
> then ignore the complaints and fail to listen to reason.
>
> * The package maintainers respond to specific expressed complaints,
> then consider the complaints and reject them on the basis of reason.
>
> How would the independent observer tell which has occurred?

Please take this conversation to -project or elsewhere, it does not
belong on -devel.


Thanks,

Michael


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Old 05-21-2010, 08:39 AM
Ben Finney
 
Default UPG and the default umask

Michael Banck <mbanck@debian.org> writes:

> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 04:19:02PM +1000, Ben Finney wrote:
> > Out of interest
[…]

> Please take this conversation to -project or elsewhere, it does not
> belong on -devel.

Fair enough, I accept the rebuke gratefully.

--
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` spirit of society and leads to its intellectual |
_o__) impoverishment.” —Albert Einstein |
Ben Finney


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