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Old 05-08-2010, 10:01 AM
Stefano Zacchiroli
 
Default Parallellizing the boot in Debian Squeeze - ready for wider testing

On Fri, May 07, 2010 at 10:06:52AM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
> All of this is based on my belief that there are very few people
> testing with CONCURRENCY=makefile. If a lot of people are using it
> successfully, it is less likely that there are many race conditions
> and edge cases left to fix, and enabling it for Squeeze would be a
> more safe option.
>
> Working with the boot system tend to make me very careful when
> introducing changes, as a wrong upload can render a lot of machines
> unable to boot.

Fair enough. IMO you've done quite a lot of communication on the matter
(at least to us developers) and I've personally been testing
CONCURRENCY=makefile in response to your repeated call for testers. At
this point, I doubt you can get significantly more testers without
changing the default concurrency level. All in all, it seems to be just
a matter of *when* doing that change to gather more feedback.

I understand that you've considered doing it now and that you've decided
not to (probably in accordance with the release team), which is fairly
understandable. It is just a pity to give up the chance to actually
understand how far are we from correct and complete dependency
declarations. Oh well, I guess it's just life.

Cheers.

--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
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Old 05-08-2010, 01:55 PM
Bernd Zeimetz
 
Default Parallellizing the boot in Debian Squeeze - ready for wider testing

On 05/07/2010 09:59 AM, Mike Hommey wrote:
> On Fri, May 07, 2010 at 09:47:36AM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>> Le jeudi 06 mai 2010 Ã* 21:11 +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen a écrit :
>>> These days, the init.d script dependencies in Squeeze are quite
>>> complete, so complete that it is actually possible to run all the
>>> init.d scripts in parallell based on these dependencies. If you want
>>> to test your Squeeze system, make sure dependency based boot
>>> sequencing is enabled, and add this line to /etc/default/rcS:
>>>
>>> CONCURRENCY=makefile
>>
>> Seems to work fine for me. However the gain isn’t really important,
>> given that the critical path includes fsck and networking.
>
> And kernel+initramfs. That's more than half the boot time (without
> even CONCURRENCY=makefile) here.

Exactly.
I gain much more from moving the start of $many_daemons behind the start of kdm
on my desktop. The speed difference with/without CONCURRENCY=makefile is not
really noticeable for me.


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Old 05-08-2010, 03:31 PM
Luk Claes
 
Default Parallellizing the boot in Debian Squeeze - ready for wider testing

On 05/08/2010 11:47 AM, Julien Cristau wrote:

On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 19:27:54 +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:


(Beside the nitpick on "we want" vs "we possibly want") I'd argue that
it's because we want a faster boot from our users ASAP.


As far as I'm concerned, "faster boot" is irrelevant. Using an init
daemon that actually does its job of supervising services, and lets us
get rid of most of the stupidity and boilerplate of init scripts, otoh,
is overdue.


I think supervising services and faster boot are nice. Faster boot is
nice for end users as well as for servers. The latter mainly because it
gives more time for actual response time in case of an intervention that
needs down time.


Cheers

Luk


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Old 05-08-2010, 05:07 PM
Petter Reinholdtsen
 
Default Parallellizing the boot in Debian Squeeze - ready for wider testing

[Stefano Zacchiroli]
> Fair enough. IMO you've done quite a lot of communication on the matter
> (at least to us developers) and I've personally been testing
> CONCURRENCY=makefile in response to your repeated call for testers. At
> this point, I doubt you can get significantly more testers without
> changing the default concurrency level. All in all, it seems to be just
> a matter of *when* doing that change to gather more feedback.

Perhaps you are right. Perhaps we should do a poll to collect
information on how testers experience their boot with
CONCURRENCY=makefile, to make it easier to switch with some confidence
that it would work for most users.

> I understand that you've considered doing it now and that you've decided
> not to (probably in accordance with the release team), which is fairly
> understandable. It is just a pity to give up the chance to actually
> understand how far are we from correct and complete dependency
> declarations. Oh well, I guess it's just life.

Well, it has not really been discussed with the release team, and the
decision depend a lot of when Squeeze freezes, so it is hard to know
what to decide.

Perhaps we should switch the default in unstable to
CONCURRENCY=makefile for a while, and if it causes a lot of problems
we can switch it back to sequential boot. At the moment I believe we
need to increase the amount of testing a lot to get the remaining bugs
located and fixed, and that is hard to do without actually doing the
switch.

Happy hacking,
--
Petter Reinholdtsen


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Old 05-08-2010, 05:21 PM
Kai Wasserbäch
 
Default Parallellizing the boot in Debian Squeeze - ready for wider testing

Hello Petter,
Petter Reinholdtsen schrieb am 08.05.2010 19:07:
> Perhaps we should do a poll to collect
> information on how testers experience their boot with
> CONCURRENCY=makefile, [...]

as one of the testers just a short reply: on several desktops and some basic
servers insserv in conjunction with "CONCURRENCY=makefile" works well. I didn't
have an unbootable system so far.
As far as speed goes: I didn't measure the speed but it feels faster.

Kind regards,
Kai Wasserbäch



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