FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Debian > Debian Development

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 04-30-2010, 08:18 PM
ุฃุญู…ุฏ ุงู„ู…ุญู…ูˆุฏูŠ
 
Default Bug#579796: ITP: othman -- electronic Quran browser in Python

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: "ุฃุ*ู…ุฏ ุงู„ู…ุ*ู…ูˆุฏูŠ" <aelmahmoudy@sabily.org>


* Package name : othman
Version : 0.2.0
Upstream Author : Muayyad Saleh Alsadi <alsadi@ojuba.org>
* URL : http://othman.ojuba.org
* License : Waqf Public License
Programming Lang: Python
Description : electronic Quran browser

Othman electronic Quran browser displays Quranic text in Othmani script style
as written under authority of Othman ibn Affan the companion of prophet
Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him).
.
Othman project features fast search, autoscrolling, copy Quranic text to
clipboard.



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 20100430201834.17387.16984.reportbug@localhost.loc aldomain">http://lists.debian.org/20100430201834.17387.16984.reportbug@localhost.loc aldomain
 
Old 05-01-2010, 09:27 AM
Adam Borowski
 
Default Bug#579796: ITP: othman -- electronic Quran browser in Python

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 11:18:34PM +0300, ุฃุ*ู…ุฏ ุงู„ู…ุ*ู…ูˆุฏูŠ wrote:
> * Package name : othman
> Description : electronic Quran browser
> * URL : http://othman.ojuba.org
> * License : Waqf Public License
http://www.ojuba.org/wiki/waqf/license

While I do like the preamble of the license (putting aside religion and
anti-Americanism), the body does include significant usage restrictions:

# The user may use the work for any good purpose and he may not use it to
# harm others or violate the permissive principles of Islam.

"Harm others" is a vague term that can be applied to a wide range of
activities usually considered ok[1]. Most of these seem to be irrelevant to
a Quran browser[2], unless you consider criticizing Islam to be "harming".

"Violate the permissive principles of Islam" seems to forbid using this
browser to search for, or refer to, lines of Quran which are harmful from
whatever side of view. This is a legitimate use of this package. This
fails the DFSG, unless we interpret the phrase "permissive principles" as
limited to only those parts of Islam which grant some kind of permission
rather than forbid something. Since religions (and laws in general) operate
by restricting things, being unable to actually grant something not
otherwise possible without that religion/law, such an interpretation doesn't
appear to make much sense, though.


Also, this comment mentions issues found by Fedora guys:

} 2009/11/14 21:21 ู‡ุดุงู… ู‡ูˆุงุฑูŠ,
} ุงู„ุณู„ุงู… ุนู„ูŠูƒู… ูˆ ุฑุ*ู…ุฉ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุชุนุงู„ู‰ ูˆ ุจุฑูƒุงุชู‡ุŒ

} Before trying to submit hijra, I exposed this license to #fedora-devel on
} irc, and it was seen as being non-free, the reason is this excerpt : โ€œThe
} user may use the work for any good purpose and he may not use it to harm
} others or violate the permissive principles of Islam. Notice that any
} work that is most likely harmful can't be put under Waqf in the first placeโ€
} The definition of โ€œgoodโ€ must be clear.

} I hope that you will take that into consideration.
} ููŠ ุฃู…ุงู† ุงู„ู„ู‡
} ูˆ ุงู„ุณู„ุงู… ุนู„ูŠูƒู… ูˆ ุฑุ*ู…ุฉ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุชุนุงู„ู‰ ูˆ ุจุฑูƒุงุชู‡


[2]. Even if a restriction seems to be moot for the intended use, one of key
Free Software freedoms is being able to repurpose the program in question
for anything else, including taking small pieces of code for use in totally
unrelated software.

[1]. Examples of "harming others" being generally ok:

* any piece of software used in a company that builds a highway that would
relieve the traffic in a large city, but to build the highway, you need to
remove a single house. Obviously, that house's dweller will be harmed
even if he receives generous compensation due to childhood memories and
other such considerations.

* anything used during an audit that exposes a slacker, embezzler, terrorist
or fraudster. The person caught will be obviously harmed, even if he
intended harm himself. In fact, during a war or most struggles, you can't
even undisputably name one side as "good" and the other as "evil". Heck,
this includes even disputes between neighbours about a flower on the hedge
between their houses.

* use in a nuclear power plant. While many, including me, consider those to
be nearly strictly better, cleaner and safer than coal plants, there are
many which consider these to be outright evil. In fact, we have seen
multiple software licenses which disallowed any such use for "moral"
grounds as opposed to merely not risking standing afoul of some unnamed
regulation.


--
1KB // Microsoft corollary to Hanlon's razor:
// Never attribute to stupidity what can be
// adequately explained by malice.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 20100501092727.GB17874@angband.pl">http://lists.debian.org/20100501092727.GB17874@angband.pl
 
Old 05-01-2010, 09:48 AM
ุฃุญู…ุฏ ุงู„ู…ุญู…ูˆุฏูŠ
 
Default Bug#579796: ITP: othman -- electronic Quran browser in Python

On Sat, May 01, 2010 at 11:27:27AM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> "Harm others" is a vague term that can be applied to a wide range of
> activities usually considered ok[1].

I am indeed discussing this matter with upstream. That license terms
need to be clear not vague.

> This fails the DFSG, unless we interpret the phrase "permissive
> principles" as limited to only those parts of Islam which grant some
> kind of permission rather than forbid something. Since religions (and
> laws in general) operate by restricting things, being unable to
> actually grant something not otherwise possible without that
> religion/law, such an interpretation doesn't appear to make much
> sense, though.

I don't understand this paragraph.

--
โ€Žุฃุ*ู…ุฏ ุงู„ู…ุ*ู…ูˆุฏูŠ (Ahmed El-Mahmoudy)
Digital design engineer
GPG KeyID: 0xEDDDA1B7
GPG Fingerprint: 8206 A196 2084 7E6D 0DF8 B176 BC19 6A94 EDDD A1B7


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 20100501094847.GC2696@ants.dhis.net">http://lists.debian.org/20100501094847.GC2696@ants.dhis.net
 
Old 05-01-2010, 11:04 AM
Mike Hommey
 
Default Bug#579796: ITP: othman -- electronic Quran browser in Python

On Sat, May 01, 2010 at 12:48:47PM +0300, ุฃุ*ู…ุฏ ุงู„ู…ุ*ู…ูˆุฏูŠ wrote:
> On Sat, May 01, 2010 at 11:27:27AM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> > "Harm others" is a vague term that can be applied to a wide range of
> > activities usually considered ok[1].
>
> I am indeed discussing this matter with upstream. That license terms
> need to be clear not vague.

Clear or vague, if they stick to a license that restricts usage, then
it fails DFSG #6.
See http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2010/03/msg00064.html, for
example, for a quite similar case.

Mike


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 20100501110426.GA9163@glandium.org">http://lists.debian.org/20100501110426.GA9163@glandium.org
 
Old 05-01-2010, 11:19 AM
ุฃุญู…ุฏ ุงู„ู…ุญู…ูˆุฏูŠ
 
Default Bug#579796: ITP: othman -- electronic Quran browser in Python

On Sat, May 01, 2010 at 01:04:26PM +0200, Mike Hommey wrote:
> Clear or vague, if they stick to a license that restricts usage, then
> it fails DFSG #6.
> See http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2010/03/msg00064.html, for
> example, for a quite similar case.
---end quoted text---

Yes, but it can be placed in non-free, right ?

--
โ€Žุฃุ*ู…ุฏ ุงู„ู…ุ*ู…ูˆุฏูŠ (Ahmed El-Mahmoudy)
Digital design engineer
GPG KeyID: 0xEDDDA1B7
GPG Fingerprint: 8206 A196 2084 7E6D 0DF8 B176 BC19 6A94 EDDD A1B7


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 20100501111903.GE2696@ants.dhis.net">http://lists.debian.org/20100501111903.GE2696@ants.dhis.net
 
Old 05-01-2010, 01:02 PM
Simon Richter
 
Default Bug#579796: ITP: othman -- electronic Quran browser in Python

Hi,

On Sat, May 01, 2010 at 02:19:03PM +0300, ุฃุ*ู…ุฏ ุงู„ู…ุ*ู…ูˆุฏูŠ wrote:

> > Clear or vague, if they stick to a license that restricts usage, then
> > it fails DFSG #6.
> > See http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2010/03/msg00064.html, for
> > example, for a quite similar case.

> Yes, but it can be placed in non-free, right ?

I think the main problem is that "good" is a subjective term, so people
who believe that they are doing "good" feel entitled to use the work,
and others who disagree with their views will claim that they are in
breach of the licence. Who gets to be the authority on what is "good"?

I'd also prefer if people would not use my software for causes I find
objectionable, but I don't think I can even do so much as draw a clear
line what constitutes "use". For example, I've written a tiny script
that will take your GPG key and produce a printable file with the
important data of the key arranged so that you can easily create bits of
paper to hand out at keysigning events. Now, people are using this to
establish secure communication channels, which can be used for any kind
of purpose, including conspiring to commit crime. Am I at fault for not
excluding this in the licence? Have I facilitated that crime because I
made it easier for the criminals to conspire?

I think at some point I just have to decline responsibility for others.

Simon


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 20100501130212.GC2561@honey.hogyros.de">http://lists.debian.org/20100501130212.GC2561@honey.hogyros.de
 
Old 05-04-2010, 03:24 AM
Gunnar Wolf
 
Default Bug#579796: ITP: othman -- electronic Quran browser in Python

ุฃุ*ู…ุฏ ุงู„ู…ุ*ู…ูˆุฏูŠ dijo [Sat, May 01, 2010 at 12:48:47PM +0300]:
> On Sat, May 01, 2010 at 11:27:27AM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> > "Harm others" is a vague term that can be applied to a wide range of
> > activities usually considered ok[1].
>
> I am indeed discussing this matter with upstream. That license terms
> need to be clear not vague.

Without getting deeper in the licensing of Othman itself, would you
consider the text of the Coran itself to be DFSG-free? I _think_ that
any religious text can only be distributed verbatim, not modified in
any way - That is completely legitimate, as it has been debated over
and over regarding the IETF RFCs.

--
Gunnar Wolf โ€ข gwolf@gwolf.org โ€ข (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 20100504032453.GC5986@gwolf.org">http://lists.debian.org/20100504032453.GC5986@gwolf.org
 
Old 05-04-2010, 06:25 AM
Andreas Tille
 
Default Bug#579796: ITP: othman -- electronic Quran browser in Python

Hi,

could you plese change

othman -- electronic Quran browser in Python

into

othman -- electronic Quran browser

or is there any reason that the Quran can better browsed with Python
than any other programming language?

Thanks

Andreas.

--
http://fam-tille.de


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 20100504062503.GC23692@an3as.eu">http://lists.debian.org/20100504062503.GC23692@an3as.eu
 
Old 05-04-2010, 09:07 AM
Adam Borowski
 
Default Bug#579796: ITP: othman -- electronic Quran browser in Python

On Mon, May 03, 2010 at 10:24:54PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> Without getting deeper in the licensing of Othman itself, would you
> consider the text of the Coran itself to be DFSG-free? I _think_ that
> any religious text can only be distributed verbatim, not modified in
> any way - That is completely legitimate, as it has been debated over
> and over regarding the IETF RFCs.

The Koran is definitely out of copyright, and thus in the public domain.
While altering the actual text may be pointless (and disrespectful for the
religion in question), it is still allowed, at least in a vast majority of
countries. And taking excerpts or adding commentary is a damn popular thing
to do.

--
1KB // Microsoft corollary to Hanlon's razor:
// Never attribute to stupidity what can be
// adequately explained by malice.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 20100504090723.GA4003@angband.pl">http://lists.debian.org/20100504090723.GA4003@angband.pl
 
Old 05-04-2010, 07:39 PM
Frank Lin PIAT
 
Default Bug#579796: ITP: othman -- electronic Quran browser in Python

On Fri, 2010-04-30 at 23:18 +0300, ุฃุ*ู…ุฏ ุงู„ู…ุ*ู…ูˆุฏูŠ wrote:
> * Package name : othman
> * License : Waqf Public License
> Description : electronic Quran browser
>
> Othman electronic Quran browser displays Quranic text in Othmani script style
> as written under authority of Othman ibn Affan the companion of prophet
> Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him).

Regarding the long description,

Not everyone knows that "Othmani script" is a script for Arabic. (I
didn't know it anyway So it might be worth mentioning that the text is
in Arabic only (is it?).

> Othman project features fast search, autoscrolling
I suggest "Othman brower features fast search and autoscrolling"

> copy Quranic text to clipboard.

Copy/Paste is a trivial feature. You might want to drop it from the
description (except if this feature is fairly unique for Quran readers)

I wonder who many people use the word "Coran" for Qur'an in English. If
this is quite frequent, you might want insert this synonym somewhere in
the description.

My 2 cents,

Franklin


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 1273001942.3088.553.camel@solid.paris.klabs.be">ht tp://lists.debian.org/1273001942.3088.553.camel@solid.paris.klabs.be
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 07:41 AM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright ฉ2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org