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Old 04-07-2010, 07:44 PM
Teodor MICU
 
Default Default value of net.ipv6.bindv6only should revert to 0

Hi,

On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Bernhard R. Link <brlink@debian.org> wrote:
> I personally would prefer ipv6 to still be a module so it can be
> blacklisted or some other way to disable it, but having this option on
> by default at least avoids many annoiances in ipv4 world.

I've always disabled IPv6 on all hosts (blacklist or alias to
/bin/true on Debian <= 5.0) and on squeeze/6.0 it works from the boot
loader:
| root@HOST:~# grep ipv6 /etc/default/grub
| GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="ipv6.disable=1 panic=20 vga=791"

Of course that after this setup you'll see the failure to set
bindv6only=1 at every boot as this key doesn't exist. Having IPv6
enabled might be a good thing for those who have this capability from
their ISP, but I'm disabling it for several reasons the first reason
being the ISP not supporting IPv6.

Cheers


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Old 04-08-2010, 09:05 AM
Stephane Bortzmeyer
 
Default Default value of net.ipv6.bindv6only should revert to 0

On Wed, Apr 07, 2010 at 08:20:37AM +0200,
Vincent Danjean <vdanjean.ml@free.fr> wrote
a message of 63 lines which said:

> I've no strong opinion about the default value for
> net.ipv6.bindv6only. However, I think that any application that
> breaks if the default value is 0 or 1 is broken and a bug must be
> filled..

You mean that applications should use the option IPV6_V6ONLY of RFC
3493, section 5.3, therefore not depending on the system-wide value?

If so, I see your point but, in many languages, it is not
possible. For instance, in Perl:

http://bugs.debian.org/569981

In Python, I do not think there is a way.


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Old 04-08-2010, 09:45 AM
Salvo Tomaselli
 
Default Default value of net.ipv6.bindv6only should revert to 0

On Thursday 08 April 2010 11:05:30 Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 07, 2010 at 08:20:37AM +0200,
> Vincent Danjean <vdanjean.ml@free.fr> wrote
>
> a message of 63 lines which said:
> > I've no strong opinion about the default value for
> > net.ipv6.bindv6only. However, I think that any application that
> > breaks if the default value is 0 or 1 is broken and a bug must be
> > filled..
>
> You mean that applications should use the option IPV6_V6ONLY of RFC
> 3493, section 5.3, therefore not depending on the system-wide value?

Could be hard to convince the developers to do so, and in my opinion
distribution-specific patches should be used only when necessary, not as a
normal way to proceed.

Unfortunately i don't have access to the POSIX specification, but the
opengroup says that by default bindv6only is 0.

http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/functions/V2_chap02.html#tag_15_10_20_02

So basically the developers will assume this value and will probably reject
bugreports claiming that the assumption is wrong.


Bye
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Salvo Tomaselli


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Old 04-08-2010, 10:09 AM
Hendrik Sattler
 
Default Default value of net.ipv6.bindv6only should revert to 0

Zitat von Salvo Tomaselli <tiposchi@tiscali.it>:


On Thursday 08 April 2010 11:05:30 Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:

On Wed, Apr 07, 2010 at 08:20:37AM +0200,
Vincent Danjean <vdanjean.ml@free.fr> wrote

a message of 63 lines which said:
> I've no strong opinion about the default value for
> net.ipv6.bindv6only. However, I think that any application that
> breaks if the default value is 0 or 1 is broken and a bug must be
> filled..

You mean that applications should use the option IPV6_V6ONLY of RFC
3493, section 5.3, therefore not depending on the system-wide value?


Could be hard to convince the developers to do so, and in my opinion
distribution-specific patches should be used only when necessary, not as a
normal way to proceed.

Unfortunately i don't have access to the POSIX specification, but the
opengroup says that by default bindv6only is 0.

http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/functions/V2_chap02.html#tag_15_10_20_02

So basically the developers will assume this value and will probably reject
bugreports claiming that the assumption is wrong.


OTOH, it defaults to 1 in Windows Vista/7, probably as compatibility
to XP which didn't have a dual-IP stack.


The text from the opengroup is directly derived from the RFC which had
a transition for IPv4 applications in mind (you don't need to work
with two sockets, then).


I also don't really see the issues with bindv6only=0. If you listen on
all interfaces, it makes is easier. If you only listen on specific
interfaces, it's not in the way.


Just let any application which cannot cope with it install another
file in /etc that sets it back to 0. Let's have a configuration file
war :-(


HS



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Old 04-08-2010, 10:28 AM
Salvo Tomaselli
 
Default Default value of net.ipv6.bindv6only should revert to 0

> OTOH, it defaults to 1 in Windows Vista/7, probably as compatibility
> to XP which didn't have a dual-IP stack.
I don't think we should care about what windows does, there can't be
compatibility anyway.

> I also don't really see the issues with bindv6only=0. If you listen on
> all interfaces, it makes is easier. If you only listen on specific
> interfaces, it's not in the way.
The problem is that freebsd has bindv6only=1 by default, but i personally
think it is a bug in the kernel.


> Just let any application which cannot cope with it install another
> file in /etc that sets it back to 0. Let's have a configuration file
> war :-(
Apparently rewriting configuration of other packages is against the policy.

Bye

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Salvo Tomaselli


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Old 04-08-2010, 10:38 AM
Hendrik Sattler
 
Default Default value of net.ipv6.bindv6only should revert to 0

Zitat von Salvo Tomaselli <tiposchi@tiscali.it>:

OTOH, it defaults to 1 in Windows Vista/7, probably as compatibility
to XP which didn't have a dual-IP stack.

I don't think we should care about what windows does, there can't be
compatibility anyway.


I also don't really see the issues with bindv6only=0. If you listen on
all interfaces, it makes is easier. If you only listen on specific
interfaces, it's not in the way.

The problem is that freebsd has bindv6only=1 by default, but i personally
think it is a bug in the kernel.


We are discussing this for linux, not freebsd, don't we?


Just let any application which cannot cope with it install another
file in /etc that sets it back to 0. Let's have a configuration file
war :-(

Apparently rewriting configuration of other packages is against the policy.


You can use another file that is parsed after the problematic setting.
How can this be a policy issue? If one package maintainer can decide
to set this to 1 by default, another one can decide to set it back to 0.


HS



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Old 04-08-2010, 11:00 AM
Samuel Thibault
 
Default Default value of net.ipv6.bindv6only should revert to 0

Hendrik Sattler, le Thu 08 Apr 2010 12:38:36 +0200, a écrit :
> Zitat von Salvo Tomaselli <tiposchi@tiscali.it>:
> >>I also don't really see the issues with bindv6only=0. If you listen on
> >>all interfaces, it makes is easier. If you only listen on specific
> >>interfaces, it's not in the way.
> >The problem is that freebsd has bindv6only=1 by default, but i personally
> >think it is a bug in the kernel.
>
> We are discussing this for linux, not freebsd, don't we?

We are discussing this for Debian first, which hopefully will ship with
the possibility to use a FreeBSD kernel.

Samuel


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Old 04-08-2010, 12:44 PM
Salvo Tomaselli
 
Default Default value of net.ipv6.bindv6only should revert to 0

On Thursday 08 April 2010 12:38:36 Hendrik Sattler wrote:
> We are discussing this for linux, not freebsd, don't we?
freebsd is the reason because this option has been changed in debian.
But again, if they must conform to one standard, i think they should conform
to opengroup rather than changing one to conform to another implementation.

> You can use another file that is parsed after the problematic setting.
> How can this be a policy issue? If one package maintainer can decide
> to set this to 1 by default, another one can decide to set it back to 0.
And then maybe another maintainer wants it to 1 so adds a latter parsed file
and so on?
Doesn't seem a proper way to me.

Bye
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Salvo Tomaselli


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Old 04-08-2010, 05:20 PM
Ben Hutchings
 
Default Default value of net.ipv6.bindv6only should revert to 0

On Thu, Apr 08, 2010 at 01:00:52PM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> Hendrik Sattler, le Thu 08 Apr 2010 12:38:36 +0200, a écrit :
> > Zitat von Salvo Tomaselli <tiposchi@tiscali.it>:
> > >>I also don't really see the issues with bindv6only=0. If you listen on
> > >>all interfaces, it makes is easier. If you only listen on specific
> > >>interfaces, it's not in the way.
> > >The problem is that freebsd has bindv6only=1 by default, but i personally
> > >think it is a bug in the kernel.
> >
> > We are discussing this for linux, not freebsd, don't we?
>
> We are discussing this for Debian first, which hopefully will ship with
> the possibility to use a FreeBSD kernel.

Then the Debian FreeBSD maintainers should fix this in their kernel.

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
We get into the habit of living before acquiring the habit of thinking.
- Albert Camus


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Old 04-08-2010, 06:02 PM
Salvo Tomaselli
 
Default Default value of net.ipv6.bindv6only should revert to 0

> Then the Debian FreeBSD maintainers should fix this in their kernel.
I agree, I've tried to convince Marco D'Itri (netbase maintainer) that the bug
is their, but without any luck.

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