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Old 01-24-2010, 11:37 AM
maximilian attems
 
Default lxc linux image flavour

hello,

the plan as decided in Portland was to go forward with openvz
if upstream provides us with a patch in time. as currently this
looks quite bad (latest available patch is for 2.6.27, there is
no sign of a patch for 2.6.32, nor any schedule like it happened
to be for Lenny).

I thus propose to enable an lxc (linux containers) [1] flavour:
* Containers are sets of processes with private namespaces, which
can look like separate boxes
* lxc is merged in linux-2.6 and continuously improved
(the maintenance of it should be thus much lower then
it was for openvz)
* lxc is fast and bench mark tested [2]
* the lxc userland is in sid and available for many archs
* libvirt support
* the 2.6.32 feature/fixes patch is tiny [3]
* RESOURCE_COUNTERS and CGROUP_MEM_RES_CTLR enabled
(has overhead that is not acceptable, for general purpose images)

On the negative side it doesn't have yet checkpointing support
and not all net/ has netns support yet.


I'll wait until 1st of February and until contrary notice
would add an lxc flavour to 2.6.32.

kind regards
maks

[1] http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-lxc-containers/
http://lwn.net/Articles/219794/
[2] http://lwn.net/Articles/179345/
[3] http://lxc.sourceforge.net/patches/2.6.32/2.6.32-rc6/share-af-unix-socket-sysctl.patch
https://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermail/containers/2010-January/022529.html
https://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermail/containers/2010-January/022600.html
 
Old 01-24-2010, 11:37 AM
maximilian attems
 
Default lxc linux image flavour

hello,

the plan as decided in Portland was to go forward with openvz
if upstream provides us with a patch in time. as currently this
looks quite bad (latest available patch is for 2.6.27, there is
no sign of a patch for 2.6.32, nor any schedule like it happened
to be for Lenny).

I thus propose to enable an lxc (linux containers) [1] flavour:
* Containers are sets of processes with private namespaces, which
can look like separate boxes
* lxc is merged in linux-2.6 and continuously improved
(the maintenance of it should be thus much lower then
it was for openvz)
* lxc is fast and bench mark tested [2]
* the lxc userland is in sid and available for many archs
* libvirt support
* the 2.6.32 feature/fixes patch is tiny [3]
* RESOURCE_COUNTERS and CGROUP_MEM_RES_CTLR enabled
(has overhead that is not acceptable, for general purpose images)

On the negative side it doesn't have yet checkpointing support
and not all net/ has netns support yet.


I'll wait until 1st of February and until contrary notice
would add an lxc flavour to 2.6.32.

kind regards
maks

[1] http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-lxc-containers/
http://lwn.net/Articles/219794/
[2] http://lwn.net/Articles/179345/
[3] http://lxc.sourceforge.net/patches/2.6.32/2.6.32-rc6/share-af-unix-socket-sysctl.patch
https://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermail/containers/2010-January/022529.html
https://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermail/containers/2010-January/022600.html
 
Old 01-24-2010, 01:17 PM
 
Default lxc linux image flavour

On Jan 24, maximilian attems <max@stro.at> wrote:

> the plan as decided in Portland was to go forward with openvz
> if upstream provides us with a patch in time. as currently this
> looks quite bad (latest available patch is for 2.6.27, there is
> no sign of a patch for 2.6.32, nor any schedule like it happened
> to be for Lenny).
I expect that it will be released after the first beta of RHEL 6.

> On the negative side it doesn't have yet checkpointing support
> and not all net/ has netns support yet.
It's not just that, AFAIK there is no match for many of the
user_beancounters features (especially the accounting part) and e.g.
lack of the equivalent of "vzctl enter" is a critical issue for my
applications.
While I am happy to see better support for lxc in Debian, it does not
look like an openvz replacement yet.

--
ciao,
Marco
 
Old 01-24-2010, 01:17 PM
 
Default lxc linux image flavour

On Jan 24, maximilian attems <max@stro.at> wrote:

> the plan as decided in Portland was to go forward with openvz
> if upstream provides us with a patch in time. as currently this
> looks quite bad (latest available patch is for 2.6.27, there is
> no sign of a patch for 2.6.32, nor any schedule like it happened
> to be for Lenny).
I expect that it will be released after the first beta of RHEL 6.

> On the negative side it doesn't have yet checkpointing support
> and not all net/ has netns support yet.
It's not just that, AFAIK there is no match for many of the
user_beancounters features (especially the accounting part) and e.g.
lack of the equivalent of "vzctl enter" is a critical issue for my
applications.
While I am happy to see better support for lxc in Debian, it does not
look like an openvz replacement yet.

--
ciao,
Marco
 
Old 01-24-2010, 02:00 PM
Bastian Blank
 
Default lxc linux image flavour

On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 01:37:26PM +0100, maximilian attems wrote:
> I thus propose to enable an lxc (linux containers) [1] flavour:

Please describe the _kernel_ improvements over the normal images. Most
of it is already enabled in the default images and does not warrant for
an extra image.

> * lxc is merged in linux-2.6 and continuously improved
> (the maintenance of it should be thus much lower then
> it was for openvz)

lxc is the userspace part.

> * RESOURCE_COUNTERS and CGROUP_MEM_RES_CTLR enabled
> (has overhead that is not acceptable, for general purpose images)

The description reads like it is possible to enable/disable the overhead
on boot time. Please elaborate.

Bastian

--
The sight of death frightens them [Earthers].
-- Kras the Klingon, "Friday's Child", stardate 3497.2


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Old 01-24-2010, 02:00 PM
Bastian Blank
 
Default lxc linux image flavour

On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 01:37:26PM +0100, maximilian attems wrote:
> I thus propose to enable an lxc (linux containers) [1] flavour:

Please describe the _kernel_ improvements over the normal images. Most
of it is already enabled in the default images and does not warrant for
an extra image.

> * lxc is merged in linux-2.6 and continuously improved
> (the maintenance of it should be thus much lower then
> it was for openvz)

lxc is the userspace part.

> * RESOURCE_COUNTERS and CGROUP_MEM_RES_CTLR enabled
> (has overhead that is not acceptable, for general purpose images)

The description reads like it is possible to enable/disable the overhead
on boot time. Please elaborate.

Bastian

--
The sight of death frightens them [Earthers].
-- Kras the Klingon, "Friday's Child", stardate 3497.2


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Old 01-24-2010, 04:19 PM
Suno Ano
 
Default lxc linux image flavour

Bastian> Please describe the _kernel_ improvements over the normal
Bastian> images. Most of it is already enabled in the default images
Bastian> and does not warrant for an extra image.

As you can see from http://sunoano.pastebin.com/m4b5380dc , line 29,
Cgroup memory controller is not. This setting is mandatory if you want
to control the available memory per containers and the like. IMO most
folks would want that, if just to make sure their local sandbox does not
go wild for some reason, thus eating up all memory.



Bastian> Lxc is the userspace part.

You are right but then I think maximilian certainly referred to the
kernelspace part of LXC here. At least that is my reading ... context
matters




Bastian> The description reads like it is possible to enable/disable
Bastian> the overhead on boot time. Please elaborate.

Nope, it has to be enabled at build-time. http://lxc.teegra.net




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Old 01-24-2010, 05:12 PM
Marco d'Itri
 
Default lxc linux image flavour

In linux.debian.kernel Suno Ano <suno.ano@sunoano.org> wrote:

> - most folks run Linux-VServer, OpenVZ, LXC etc. on boxes they own plus
> they control themselves so that is not really an issue
I wonder how you came to this conclusion.

> - those environments in need for limits/beancounters (disk quota etc.)
> may probably have to wait another six months or so until it will be
> available in LXC. Till then it is quite possible to run on 2.6.26
> with OpenVZ and then migrate things to LXC. We have excellent
So it will not actually be available in squeeze, and squeeze cannot work
with the lenny kernels unless they are rebuilt with
CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED=n.
You could as well have said proposed to wait and use the RHEL6 kernels.

> Marco> Lack of the equivalent of "vzctl enter" is a critical issue for
> Marco> my applications.
>I do not remember the exact command now but from what I remember
>hearing/reading last week, that feature will be available shortly.
I remember hearing last week that there is no simple way to move a
running process to a different cgroup, so it will be very hard to
implement this.

--
ciao,
Marco


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Old 01-24-2010, 06:30 PM
Suno Ano
 
Default lxc linux image flavour

>> - Those environments in need for limits/beancounters (disk quota
>> etc.) May probably have to wait another six months or so until it
>> will be available in LXC. Till then it is quite possible to run on
>> 2.6.26 with OpenVZ and then migrate things to LXC.

Marco> So it will not actually be available in squeeze, and squeeze
Marco> cannot work with the lenny kernels unless they are rebuilt with
Marco> CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED=n. You could as well have said proposed
Marco> to wait and use the RHEL6 kernels.

I did not propose anything. I just pointed out one possible migration
path from OpenVZ to LXC. I have a few servers running testing with
2.6.26. One could wait (read "not upgrade") till LXC provides for
beancounters etc. and then migrate to squeeze and thus LXC.

And yes, squeeze rc1 would probably not have beancounters but some later
rc would probably provide it in case the kernel gets an update. As for
RHEL6, nobody seems to know when it will be released.

One thing I am sure, I am not proposing to wait for RHEL6 kernels since
I am in favor of LXC since it is in mainline and not maintained out of
tree as is OpenVZ.


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Old 01-24-2010, 07:15 PM
Ben Hutchings
 
Default lxc linux image flavour

On Sun, 2010-01-24 at 15:17 +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Jan 24, maximilian attems <max@stro.at> wrote:
>
> > the plan as decided in Portland was to go forward with openvz
> > if upstream provides us with a patch in time. as currently this
> > looks quite bad (latest available patch is for 2.6.27, there is
> > no sign of a patch for 2.6.32, nor any schedule like it happened
> > to be for Lenny).
> I expect that it will be released after the first beta of RHEL 6.
[...]

I believe there already has been a beta, just not a public one. RH
seems to be very secretive about this release.

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
Any smoothly functioning technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo.
 

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