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Old 12-27-2009, 11:14 PM
Norbert Preining
 
Default quilt 3.0 source format and dpkg-source/dpkg-buildpackage

Can someone of the proposers of this (nice? stupid? rubbish?) format
explain me please why on earth:
- git-buildpackage
- dpkg-buildpackage
- and in fact at the bottom dpkg-source
fuck around in my git repository, applying patches, just for builing
a source package?

If someone is so kind and tell me how that should work:

$ git-buildpackage -us -uc -S
... ok new quilt 3.o source package has been built
$ git status
...peng, all patches applied, but I don't WANT them applied!!!
$ quilt pop -a
... blabla cannot find bla bla...
$ git status
...still a pain

Ok, it might be that some people enjoy working permanently in that format,
but then, how to create a new patch? quilt new does not work:
$ quilt new
... bummer, there is now ./patches in my git repository


I don't know what big advantages there really are, I have seen the
announcements again and again and haven't seen any compelling reason in
it. The only reason is that it is just plain counter intuitive
to work with.

Well, anyway, I converted one pakcage to quilt 3.0, and I will convert
it back. I don't care for it.

Have a nice day.

Best wishes

Norbert
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining preining@{jaist.ac.jp, logic.at, debian.org}
JAIST, Japan TU Wien, Austria Debian TeX Task Force
DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
------------------------------------------------------------------------
`We've got to find out what people want from fire, how
they relate to it, what sort of image it has for them.'
The crowd were tense. They were expecting something
wonderful from Ford.
`Stick it up your nose,' he said.
`Which is precisely the sort of thing we need to know,'
insisted the girl, `Do people want fire that can be fitted
nasally?'
--- Ford "debating" what to do with fire with a marketing
--- girl.
--- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy


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Old 12-27-2009, 11:25 PM
Iustin Pop
 
Default quilt 3.0 source format and dpkg-source/dpkg-buildpackage

On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 01:14:46AM +0100, Norbert Preining wrote:
> Can someone of the proposers of this (nice? stupid? rubbish?) format
> explain me please why on earth:
> - git-buildpackage
> - dpkg-buildpackage
> - and in fact at the bottom dpkg-source
> fuck around in my git repository, applying patches, just for builing
> a source package?

Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I use the same workflow,
git-buildpackage + 3.0 (quilt) and I have no problems so far.

> If someone is so kind and tell me how that should work:
>
> $ git-buildpackage -us -uc -S
> ... ok new quilt 3.o source package has been built
> $ git status
> ...peng, all patches applied, but I don't WANT them applied!!!

Are you using --git-export-dir? It seems not, and that you build the
package in-place.

I use this snippet in my gbp.conf:
[git-buildpackage]
export-dir = ../build-area/

which never runs anything in my git dir, so it's always pristine.

> $ quilt pop -a
> ... blabla cannot find bla bla...
> $ git status
> ...still a pain

Maybe git reset --hard + removal of the .pc directory.

> Ok, it might be that some people enjoy working permanently in that format,
> but then, how to create a new patch? quilt new does not work:
> $ quilt new
> ... bummer, there is now ./patches in my git repository

My .quiltrc includes this:

QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches

So it uses the right directory.

> I don't know what big advantages there really are, I have seen the
> announcements again and again and haven't seen any compelling reason in
> it. The only reason is that it is just plain counter intuitive
> to work with.
>
> Well, anyway, I converted one pakcage to quilt 3.0, and I will convert
> it back. I don't care for it.

Again, sorry to hear this experience - in my case, after reading the
wiki page, it was a painless experience. And the new format seems
cleaner - no longer quilt-specific stuff in debian/rules, and a nice
debian.tar.gz instead of a diff.

regards,
iustin


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Old 12-27-2009, 11:38 PM
Norbert Preining
 
Default quilt 3.0 source format and dpkg-source/dpkg-buildpackage

On Mo, 28 Dez 2009, Iustin Pop wrote:
> Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I use the same workflow,
> git-buildpackage + 3.0 (quilt) and I have no problems so far.

Good for you.

> Are you using --git-export-dir? It seems not, and that you build the
> package in-place.

No, and it is nowhere mentioned on the wiki page.

Mind that git-buildpackage with normal 1.0 source format does NOT pollute
the git repository, so my expectation is that the 3.0 format does the
same, but alas, it doesn't.

> I use this snippet in my gbp.conf:
> [git-buildpackage]
> export-dir = ../build-area/

Thanks, good to know, I have added it now.

> > $ quilt pop -a
> > ... blabla cannot find bla bla...
> > $ git status
> > ...still a pain
>
> Maybe git reset --hard + removal of the .pc directory.

QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches pop -a ; rm -rf .pc

does also the trick ... but it is a pain.

> > $ quilt new
> > ... bummer, there is now ./patches in my git repository
>
> My .quiltrc includes this:
>
> QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches

That is wrong, because I do other projects where I don't have my
patches in debian/patches ...

Is a DD expected to only use quilt in that mode? Arggg.

> Again, sorry to hear this experience - in my case, after reading the
> wiki page, it was a painless experience. And the new format seems

Well, because you had the gbp.conf stuff already in place, and the .quiltrc,
but nothing of that is mentioned in the Wiki.

> cleaner - no longer quilt-specific stuff in debian/rules, and a nice
> debian.tar.gz instead of a diff.

Beh, I disagree, the 3 different lines in debian/rules are NOT bad
by itself, it shows that *something* is changed. And a nice debian.tar.gz,
what does it give you? Do you look at the files and enjoy their
artistic beauty? I don't care for what they look like, I upload them,
and as long as the tools can work with them, that is fine.

Well, de gustibus non disputandum est.

I will remain with 1.0 until I see a compelling reason

(In fact there is one, including binary files in .debian.tar.gz, but
since I only need that for the TeX Live packages, and svn-buildpackage
is not ready, I am hosed again)

Thanks for your very insightful remarks!!!

Best wishes

Norbert
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining preining@{jaist.ac.jp, logic.at, debian.org}
JAIST, Japan TU Wien, Austria Debian TeX Task Force
DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GOOLE (n.)
The puddle on the bar into which the barman puts your change.
--- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff


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Old 12-27-2009, 11:41 PM
Russ Allbery
 
Default quilt 3.0 source format and dpkg-source/dpkg-buildpackage

Norbert Preining <preining@logic.at> writes:
> On Mo, 28 Dez 2009, Iustin Pop wrote:

>> My .quiltrc includes this:
>>
>> QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches

> That is wrong, because I do other projects where I don't have my
> patches in debian/patches ...

> Is a DD expected to only use quilt in that mode? Arggg.

No, there's a more general recipe for selectively setting QUILT_PATCHES in
the documentation in the quilt package.

--
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>


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Old 12-28-2009, 05:00 AM
Raphael Hertzog
 
Default quilt 3.0 source format and dpkg-source/dpkg-buildpackage

Hi,

On Mon, 28 Dec 2009, Norbert Preining wrote:
> > Are you using --git-export-dir? It seems not, and that you build the
> > package in-place.
>
> No, and it is nowhere mentioned on the wiki page.
>
> Mind that git-buildpackage with normal 1.0 source format does NOT pollute
> the git repository, so my expectation is that the 3.0 format does the
> same, but alas, it doesn't.

Well, if you have the usual quilt rules, you working copy is also modified
until the next debian/rules clean. Here the clean doesn't unapply the
patches because the standard state is having the patches applied (that's
what you get after dpkg-source -x).

> Is a DD expected to only use quilt in that mode? Arggg.

/usr/share/doc/quilt/README.source

> > Again, sorry to hear this experience - in my case, after reading the
> > wiki page, it was a painless experience. And the new format seems
>
> Well, because you had the gbp.conf stuff already in place, and the .quiltrc,
> but nothing of that is mentioned in the Wiki.

It's a wiki so people can add their own recommendations over time...
Do you really expect me to test all vcs-buildpackage and come up with
tips for them?

> (In fact there is one, including binary files in .debian.tar.gz, but
> since I only need that for the TeX Live packages, and svn-buildpackage
> is not ready, I am hosed again)

What problem do you get with svn-buildpackage? It doesn't support multiple
upstream tarballs but if you don't use that feature it should not be a
problem at all...

And next time you could ask your questions without doing snide remarks
about the work done, you will still get answers...

Cheers,
--
RaphaŽl Hertzog


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Old 12-28-2009, 07:09 AM
Iustin Pop
 
Default quilt 3.0 source format and dpkg-source/dpkg-buildpackage

On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 01:38:43AM +0100, Norbert Preining wrote:
> On Mo, 28 Dez 2009, Iustin Pop wrote:
> > Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I use the same workflow,
> > git-buildpackage + 3.0 (quilt) and I have no problems so far.
>
> Good for you.
>
> > Are you using --git-export-dir? It seems not, and that you build the
> > package in-place.
>
> No, and it is nowhere mentioned on the wiki page.
>
> Mind that git-buildpackage with normal 1.0 source format does NOT pollute
> the git repository, so my expectation is that the 3.0 format does the
> same, but alas, it doesn't.

As others have remarked, the working copy is polluted with 1.0 too, and
you would need to run debian/rules clean to get back to a pristine
state.

> > My .quiltrc includes this:
> >
> > QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches
>
> That is wrong, because I do other projects where I don't have my
> patches in debian/patches ...
>
> Is a DD expected to only use quilt in that mode? Arggg.

Well, I personally am using it only in that mode (since I only use it
for deb packaging), and for me it's fine. I saw other people saying one
could selectively choose this, which is good.

> > Again, sorry to hear this experience - in my case, after reading the
> > wiki page, it was a painless experience. And the new format seems
>
> Well, because you had the gbp.conf stuff already in place, and the .quiltrc,
> but nothing of that is mentioned in the Wiki.

I will try to get it in the Wiki later this week (unless someone else
beats me to it).

> > cleaner - no longer quilt-specific stuff in debian/rules, and a nice
> > debian.tar.gz instead of a diff.
>
> Beh, I disagree, the 3 different lines in debian/rules are NOT bad
> by itself, it shows that *something* is changed. And a nice debian.tar.gz,
> what does it give you? Do you look at the files and enjoy their
> artistic beauty? I don't care for what they look like, I upload them,
> and as long as the tools can work with them, that is fine.
>
> Well, de gustibus non disputandum est.

Just to clarify: not for my packages, but for other's people packages!
When downloading the sources, it's much easier for me to look at the
debian.tar.gz rather than read the diff and try to understand how would
that apply.

Furthermore, by standardising on quilt patches, I hope that we will move
away from directly patching upstream source in the debian diff.gz, which
I find very sloppy work.

So yes, while I used quilt in my packages before and thus 3.0 (quilt) is
just a small (but welcome) improvement for me, I hope that if most of
the maintainers move to this format, we'll have much cleaner packages
and things like patch-tracker.debian.org will be able to work better
with packages.

regards,
iustin


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Old 12-28-2009, 08:11 AM
Neil Williams
 
Default quilt 3.0 source format and dpkg-source/dpkg-buildpackage

On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 01:38:43 +0100
Norbert Preining <preining@logic.at> wrote:

> > cleaner - no longer quilt-specific stuff in debian/rules, and a nice
> > debian.tar.gz instead of a diff.
>
> Beh, I disagree, the 3 different lines in debian/rules are NOT bad
> by itself, it shows that *something* is changed. And a nice
> debian.tar.gz, what does it give you? Do you look at the files and
> enjoy their artistic beauty? I don't care for what they look like, I
> upload them, and as long as the tools can work with them, that is
> fine.
>
> Well, de gustibus non disputandum est.
>
> I will remain with 1.0 until I see a compelling reason

:-)

I'm keeping at least 2/3rds of my packages on 1.0 too and plan to do so
even after 3.0 is "default". I see no merit in 3.0 for most of my
packages.

3.0 becoming default still cannot require that packages are changed
to 3.0 when the maintainer still uses 1.0 - there are too many changes
within the package for the conversion to be automatic.

> (In fact there is one, including binary files in .debian.tar.gz, but
> since I only need that for the TeX Live packages, and svn-buildpackage
> is not ready, I am hosed again)

svn-buildpackage 0.7.1 can cope with dpkg source format 3.0 - in the
context of using an .orig.tar.bz2 but not (yet) with multiple tarballs.
Have you tried that version with TeX Live? If there are things that
svn-bp (>=0.7.1) doesn't yet do that TeX Live needs, please file bugs so
that I know what to fix. Thanks.

(Personally, I'm not happy with 3.0 either, I see no sufficient benefit
to use it unless the upstream tarball is a .tar.bz2. It's not cleaner,
lsdiff -z is no different to tar -tzf. However, I will do what I can
to allow 3.0 to work within svn-bp for the few packages that may
benefit.)

--


Neil Williams
=============
http://www.data-freedom.org/
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/
http://e-mail.is-not-s.ms/
 
Old 12-28-2009, 10:29 AM
Joerg Jaspert
 
Default quilt 3.0 source format and dpkg-source/dpkg-buildpackage

> (Personally, I'm not happy with 3.0 either, I see no sufficient benefit
> to use it unless the upstream tarball is a .tar.bz2. It's not cleaner,
> lsdiff -z is no different to tar -tzf. However, I will do what I can
> to allow 3.0 to work within svn-bp for the few packages that may
> benefit.)

It would have been MORE than easy to have bz2 support in 1.0. There is
absolutely no reason why it needs a 3.0 just for a different compression.
But that wasnt wanted.

--
bye, Joerg
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/How_to_win_an_argument


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Old 12-28-2009, 10:59 AM
Neil Williams
 
Default quilt 3.0 source format and dpkg-source/dpkg-buildpackage

On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 12:29:48 +0100
Joerg Jaspert <joerg@debian.org> wrote:

> > (Personally, I'm not happy with 3.0 either, I see no sufficient
> > benefit to use it unless the upstream tarball is a .tar.bz2. It's
> > not cleaner, lsdiff -z is no different to tar -tzf. However, I will
> > do what I can to allow 3.0 to work within svn-bp for the few
> > packages that may benefit.)
>
> It would have been MORE than easy to have bz2 support in 1.0.

I don't doubt it.

> There is
> absolutely no reason why it needs a 3.0 just for a different
> compression. But that wasnt wanted.

Well quite, using 3.0 (quilt) merely to handle a .tar.bz2 is not
following the spirit of format 3.0, merely using (abusing?) it. A few
packages that I have converted also had patches, so I went through the
hassle of converting CDBS patches to quilt patches but removed all the
DEP-3 bloat.

However, I've decided not to migrate my other packages that continue to
use .tar.gz upstream to 3.0, whether those packages use patches or not.
I think there was only one package where a .tar.gz was used but where
quilt was easier to use for future patches than the old CDBS system,
but then the CDBS patch system I was using is described as
simple-patchsys and I was trying to use it for some complex patching
and quilt would have been a usable alternative even if I'd kept that
package with 1.0 and gone to debhelper 7 instead. Of course, once those
patches are effected upstream, I could put that package back to dpkg
source format 1.0, as is my preference.

So, out of 67 packages I maintain in Debian, only ~7 are going to
support dpkg source format 3.0, whether 3.0 becomes the "default" or
not. I've no intention of converting packages unnecessarily or where
there is no merit. I'll do whatever is needed to force format 1.0 when
the time comes - I see that as preferable. I don't see how 1.0 can ever
be declared "unsupported", just "not the default" - at least until
Squeeze+3.

--


Neil Williams
=============
http://www.data-freedom.org/
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/
http://e-mail.is-not-s.ms/
 
Old 12-28-2009, 01:01 PM
Joachim Wiedorn
 
Default quilt 3.0 source format and dpkg-source/dpkg-buildpackage

Hello,

----
Am Mon, 28 Dec 2009 01:25:17 +0100 schrieb
Iustin Pop <iusty@k1024.org>:

> Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I use the same workflow,
> git-buildpackage + 3.0 (quilt) and I have no problems so far.

Before I have made official Debian packages I have collected many
experience with format 1.0 and I find it easy. Since some weeks I make
some official Debian packages and since my beginning of maintaining I
use the new format 3.0 (quilt).

I still use CDBS and I use "simple-patches" - but now without CDBS
support. My minor change is the file "patches/series" which let
dpkg-buildpackages know that there are patches. This seems very simple,
too. To get the old manner, I must only delete the series file and add
the CDBS line into debian/rules. But remaining in format 3.0.

> > $ quilt pop -a
> > ... blabla cannot find bla bla...
> > $ git status
> > ...still a pain

Because I never used quilt, the syntax for quilt is a little bit stupid
for me. So also with the new format I don't use quilt.

The only missing item for me is: there are no simple command to unapply
the patches with dpkg-buildpackages (or debuild). For example:

debuild unapply

> My .quiltrc includes this:
>
> QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches
>
> So it uses the right directory.

I have found this info at the beginning inside the first dpkg package
with format 3.0 support.

Final: I can work with the new format - but not with quilt!

Fondest regards,
Joachim Wiedorn
 

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