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Old 12-28-2009, 04:40 PM
Norbert Preining
 
Default quilt 3.0 source format and dpkg-source/dpkg-buildpackage

On So, 27 Dez 2009, Russ Allbery wrote:
> >> My .quiltrc includes this:
> >>
> >> QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches
>
> No, there's a more general recipe for selectively setting QUILT_PATCHES in
> the documentation in the quilt package.

Pointers please? I checked README.Debian, README.gz, quilt.txt.gz,
and quilt.quiltrc for QUILT_PATCHES but didn't find anything (although
I haven't read every line). Thanks.

Best wishes

Norbert
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining preining@{jaist.ac.jp, logic.at, debian.org}
JAIST, Japan TU Wien, Austria Debian TeX Task Force
DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
------------------------------------------------------------------------
DUNBAR (n.)
A highly specialised fiscal term used solely by turnstile
operatives at Regnet's Part zoo. It refers to the variable amount of
increase in the variable gate takings on a Sunday afternoon, caused by
persons going to the zoo because they are in love and believe that the
feeling of romance will be somehow enhanced by the smell of panther
sweat and rank incontinence in the reptile house.
--- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff


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Old 12-28-2009, 04:44 PM
Joey Hess
 
Default quilt 3.0 source format and dpkg-source/dpkg-buildpackage

Joachim Wiedorn wrote:
> I still use CDBS and I use "simple-patches" - but now without CDBS
> support. My minor change is the file "patches/series" which let
> dpkg-buildpackages know that there are patches. This seems very simple,
> too. To get the old manner, I must only delete the series file and add
> the CDBS line into debian/rules. But remaining in format 3.0.

> Because I never used quilt, the syntax for quilt is a little bit stupid
> for me. So also with the new format I don't use quilt.

If I understand correctly what you're doing, you have a 3.0 (quilt)
package with no quilt managed patches, and using a debian/rules based
patch system on top of it. That perversion of the 3.0 format threatens
to eliminate the main archive-wide gain of that format: That any 3.0
source package can be unpacked and the pre-patched source accessed
without needing to manually follow a README.source file.

I would prefer not to see such packages in the archive using source
format 3.0. We've been down that road with 1.0, and it was not pretty.
Above all other goals, my goal with putting the framework of source 3.0
in place was to allow the flexability that that mess never need to
happen again. Please try to respect that; the benefits of getting this
consistently right, are widespread, diffuse, but very real.

I think you should be using a dedicated source format for your patch
system, preferably one that preserves the pre-patched source on unpack
invariant. Either the existing 3.0 (custom), or a new 3.0 subformat.

--
see shy jo
 
Old 12-28-2009, 04:44 PM
Joey Hess
 
Default quilt 3.0 source format and dpkg-source/dpkg-buildpackage

Joachim Wiedorn wrote:
> I still use CDBS and I use "simple-patches" - but now without CDBS
> support. My minor change is the file "patches/series" which let
> dpkg-buildpackages know that there are patches. This seems very simple,
> too. To get the old manner, I must only delete the series file and add
> the CDBS line into debian/rules. But remaining in format 3.0.

> Because I never used quilt, the syntax for quilt is a little bit stupid
> for me. So also with the new format I don't use quilt.

If I understand correctly what you're doing, you have a 3.0 (quilt)
package with no quilt managed patches, and using a debian/rules based
patch system on top of it. That perversion of the 3.0 format threatens
to eliminate the main archive-wide gain of that format: That any 3.0
source package can be unpacked and the pre-patched source accessed
without needing to manually follow a README.source file.

I would prefer not to see such packages in the archive using source
format 3.0. We've been down that road with 1.0, and it was not pretty.
Above all other goals, my goal with putting the framework of source 3.0
in place was to allow the flexability that that mess never need to
happen again. Please try to respect that; the benefits of getting this
consistently right, are widespread, diffuse, but very real.

I think you should be using a dedicated source format for your patch
system, preferably one that preserves the pre-patched source on unpack
invariant. Either the existing 3.0 (custom), or a new 3.0 subformat.

--
see shy jo
 
Old 12-28-2009, 04:46 PM
Norbert Preining
 
Default quilt 3.0 source format and dpkg-source/dpkg-buildpackage

On Mo, 28 Dez 2009, Norbert Preining wrote:
> > No, there's a more general recipe for selectively setting QUILT_PATCHES in
> > the documentation in the quilt package.
>
> Pointers please? I checked README.Debian, README.gz, quilt.txt.gz,
> and quilt.quiltrc for QUILT_PATCHES but didn't find anything (although
> I haven't read every line). Thanks.

Ahhhh README.source ... please that is the WRONG location.

README.source is about how the debian package of itself (quilt) in this
case was prepared, not how to use it!!!

Please move that info to README.Debian or README.Using_Quilt or whatever,
the place is damned wrong, to repeat what lintian states:
Info: This package build-depends on a patch system such as dpatch or
quilt, but there is no <tt>debian/README.source</tt> file. This file is
recommended for any package where <tt>dpkg-source -x</tt> does not result
in the preferred form for making modifications to the package.
.
If you are using quilt and the package needs no other special handling
instructions, you may want to add a <tt>debian/README.source</tt>
referring to <tt>/usr/share/doc/quilt/README.source</tt>. Similarly, you
can refer to <tt>/usr/share/doc/dpatch/README.source.gz</tt> for dpatch.


Specifying usage instruction for quilt in quilt/README.source is wrong.

Best wishes

Norbert
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining preining@{jaist.ac.jp, logic.at, debian.org}
JAIST, Japan TU Wien, Austria Debian TeX Task Force
DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
------------------------------------------------------------------------
BELPER
A knob of someone else's chewing gum which you unexpectedly find your
hand resting on under a deck's top, under the passenger seat of your
car or on somebody's thigh under their skirt.
--- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff


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Old 12-28-2009, 04:54 PM
Norbert Preining
 
Default quilt 3.0 source format and dpkg-source/dpkg-buildpackage

On Mo, 28 Dez 2009, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> > Mind that git-buildpackage with normal 1.0 source format does NOT pollute
> > the git repository, so my expectation is that the 3.0 format does the
> > same, but alas, it doesn't.
>
> Well, if you have the usual quilt rules, you working copy is also modified
> until the next debian/rules clean. Here the clean doesn't unapply the

I disagree:

$ ls ~/.gbp.conf
ls: cannot access /home/norbert/.gbp.conf: No such file or directory
$ git status
# On branch master
nothing to commit (working directory clean)
$ git-buildpackage -us -uc -rfakeroot -S
...
dpkg-buildpackage: source only, diff-only upload (original source NOT included)
Now running lintian...
Finished running lintian.
$ git status
# On branch master
nothing to commit (working directory clean)
$

So please tell me *what* has changed?

Doing the same with source format 3.0 git status reports hundreds
of differences.

So please do not spread things that are not correct!

> > Is a DD expected to only use quilt in that mode? Arggg.
>
> /usr/share/doc/quilt/README.source

Ah, see my other email, that is the wrong place to give usage instructions,
in my other email I quoted lintian ...

> It's a wiki so people can add their own recommendations over time...
> Do you really expect me to test all vcs-buildpackage and come up with
> tips for them?

Of course nobody expects that, but pushing it as new default format
I would have expected a bit more preparation (although we are far
from having quilt 3.0 as default format).

Be reminded that since months (the first one was I don't remember when)
we get bug reports about "does not build with quilt 3.0". That *is*
a different approach then just implementing a new source format
and make it optional. That is actively pushing maintainers to switch
to that format.

And in this case *I* (speaking for me) expect that some standard tools
for building packages ({git,svn,bzr,dpkg}-buildpackage are tested
and also usage recommendations are given.

On the Wiki page it is stated under "How to convert a source package?"
blabla ..."there are other changes that you might want to do: " but then
no mentioning of any of the problems I have reported.

Again, a normal addition of a new format is something else then a concerted
and active push of all maintainers to switch to that format.

> > since I only need that for the TeX Live packages, and svn-buildpackage
> > is not ready, I am hosed again)
>
> What problem do you get with svn-buildpackage? It doesn't support multiple

I saw the bug report against it, and I am not planning to play around
with quilt 3.0 in packages as complicated as texlive with a format which
creates *for*me* more problems than it gives to me.

> And next time you could ask your questions without doing snide remarks
> about the work done, you will still get answers...

Here I agree, and I am sorry for the bad words.

Best wishes

Norbert
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining preining@{jaist.ac.jp, logic.at, debian.org}
JAIST, Japan TU Wien, Austria Debian TeX Task Force
DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
------------------------------------------------------------------------
HAUGHAM (n.)
One who loudly informs other diners in a restaurant what kind of man
he is by calling for the chef by his christian name from the lobby.
--- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff


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Old 12-28-2009, 04:56 PM
Norbert Preining
 
Default quilt 3.0 source format and dpkg-source/dpkg-buildpackage

On Mo, 28 Dez 2009, Iustin Pop wrote:
> As others have remarked, the working copy is polluted with 1.0 too, and
> you would need to run debian/rules clean to get back to a pristine
> state.

See my other email, that is *wrong*. I was talking about
dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -rfakeroot -S
(I always build my packages in a clean chroot and NOT in my running
system!!)

> > Well, because you had the gbp.conf stuff already in place, and the .quiltrc,
> > but nothing of that is mentioned in the Wiki.
>
> I will try to get it in the Wiki later this week (unless someone else
> beats me to it).

Thanks, I think that will help a lot of people.

Best wishes

Norbert
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining preining@{jaist.ac.jp, logic.at, debian.org}
JAIST, Japan TU Wien, Austria Debian TeX Task Force
DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MINCHINHAMPTON (n.)
The expression on a man's face when he has just zipped up his trousers
without due care and attention.
--- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff


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Old 12-28-2009, 05:01 PM
Norbert Preining
 
Default quilt 3.0 source format and dpkg-source/dpkg-buildpackage

On Mo, 28 Dez 2009, Neil Williams wrote:
> svn-buildpackage 0.7.1 can cope with dpkg source format 3.0 - in the
> context of using an .orig.tar.bz2 but not (yet) with multiple tarballs.
> Have you tried that version with TeX Live? If there are things that

Honestly, building TL packages is too complicated (we are building
*source* packages with a quite complicated perl script which reads
a damned complicated config file ...) for me to play around with
that.

> svn-bp (>=0.7.1) doesn't yet do that TeX Live needs, please file bugs so
> that I know what to fix. Thanks.

Since I will not switch any of my packages to 3.0 format for now I guess
there will no need for patches.

Best wishes

Norbert
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining preining@{jaist.ac.jp, logic.at, debian.org}
JAIST, Japan TU Wien, Austria Debian TeX Task Force
DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
------------------------------------------------------------------------
SCRABBY (n.) A curious-shaped duster given to you by your mother which
on closer inspection turns out to be half an underpant.
--- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff


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Old 12-28-2009, 05:43 PM
Joachim Wiedorn
 
Default quilt 3.0 source format and dpkg-source/dpkg-buildpackage

Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org> wrote:

> Joachim Wiedorn wrote:
> > I still use CDBS and I use "simple-patches" - but now without CDBS
> > support. My minor change is the file "patches/series" which let
> > dpkg-buildpackages know that there are patches. This seems very simple,
> > too. To get the old manner, I must only delete the series file and add
> > the CDBS line into debian/rules. But remaining in format 3.0.
>
> > Because I never used quilt, the syntax for quilt is a little bit stupid
> > for me. So also with the new format I don't use quilt.
>
> If I understand correctly what you're doing, you have a 3.0 (quilt)
> package with no quilt managed patches, and using a debian/rules based
No, I don't use an debian/rules based patch system. The patches will be
used by dpkg-buildpackage because I have created the patches/series
file. So inside dpkg the quilt-management of the patches will be used.
But I don't use quilt outside the dpkg system.

> source package can be unpacked and the pre-patched source accessed
> without needing to manually follow a README.source file.
I also don't need any manually patching system. It is done by
dpkg-buildpackage.

Please try my package "xfe" for example and check whether it is the
"perversion of the 3.0 format".

Fondest regards,
Joachim Wiedorn
 
Old 12-28-2009, 06:00 PM
Joey Hess
 
Default quilt 3.0 source format and dpkg-source/dpkg-buildpackage

Joachim Wiedorn wrote:
> No, I don't use an debian/rules based patch system. The patches will be
> used by dpkg-buildpackage because I have created the patches/series
> file. So inside dpkg the quilt-management of the patches will be used.
> But I don't use quilt outside the dpkg system.
>
> Please try my package "xfe" for example and check whether it is the
> "perversion of the 3.0 format".

Looks great actually. That's a relief!

--
see shy jo
 
Old 12-28-2009, 07:26 PM
Russ Allbery
 
Default quilt 3.0 source format and dpkg-source/dpkg-buildpackage

Iustin Pop <iusty@k1024.org> writes:

> Furthermore, by standardising on quilt patches, I hope that we will move
> away from directly patching upstream source in the debian diff.gz, which
> I find very sloppy work.

If patches to the upstream source are maintained in Git or some other
full-featured revision control system with merging and similar features,
serializing those changes into a set of patches turns out to be rather
obnoxious and tedious without any clear benefit to the package maintainer,
even with the assistance of tools like TopGit.

I'd be happy to use 3.0 (git), but the patch management features of 3.0
(quilt) only seems helpful in some specific contexts with workflows that
are already separating out the patches for other reasons. I will use it
for rssh, for instance, since the maintainer has stopped issuing new
releases but the various distributions exchange patches and it's nice to
have them already broken out. But for openafs, where I cherry-pick
upwards of 20 or 30 changes from the upstream stable branch routinely and
often have to do moderately complex merges with Debian-specific changes,
trying to serialize those as quilt patches makes no sense to me and would
just consume time that I could better use for other Debian work.

That being said, the 3.0 (quilt) format is to a degree just a more complex
version of the 1.0 format that supports applying the patches
automatically, so while there are still tool problems (like the one
Norbert noted, or the fact that Lintian is not yet properly checking the
patches for all the issues that it checks the 1.0 patch for), it does seem
likely that we'll be able to get to a point where using it is as easy as
using 1.0. For Git-maintained packages like openafs, that would mean
ignoring all the patch management features and letting it generate a
single combined Debian diff analogous to the existing 1.0 diff from the
patched upstream source maintained in Git.

--
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>


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