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Old 01-03-2008, 05:30 AM
Russ Allbery
 
Default Opinions needed: reporting lintian overrides

After a recent problem with a package with a fairly egregious error that
was overridden, hurting the ability of the sponsor to notice it, I added a
line of output to the default lintian output saying if any package
overrides error or warning tags.

As I sort of suspected at the time, someone else has now objected to
having this output by default on the grounds that the point of the
override was to shut lintian up and it's easier to verify that lintian
produces no output.

I'd really like to not have to make this decision myself. I'd like to get
opinions and see if a consensus emerges. I personally always run lintian
with -iI --show-overrides, so I'm clearly not the target audience for this
feature one way or the other. Here are the options:

* Show the N: line with a count of overrides per package by default and
provide an option to suppress this output if someone wants.

* Don't show the N: line by default and provide an option to turn it on.

Which should we do?

Separately, I'm working on adding lintian overrides to the lintian.d.o
pages to make it easier to see how people are using overrides across the
whole archive. It looks like people sometimes just add an override when
lintian makes a mistake rather than filing a bug, so this gives us a
fighting chance of finding those bugs and fixing them. It also uncovers
some fascinating overrides currently in the archive.

Oh, and there are 1759 unused overrides in the archive in 369 packages.
lintian -i will tell you about unused overrides. We do fix false-positive
bugs!

--
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>


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Old 01-03-2008, 05:50 AM
Russ Allbery
 
Default Opinions needed: reporting lintian overrides

Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> writes:

> Oh, and there are 1759 unused overrides in the archive in 369 packages.
> lintian -i will tell you about unused overrides. We do fix
> false-positive bugs!

lintian -I, rather. (Display info tags.)

--
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>


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Old 01-03-2008, 06:23 AM
Luk Claes
 
Default Opinions needed: reporting lintian overrides

Hi Russ

Russ Allbery wrote:
> I'd really like to not have to make this decision myself. I'd like to get
> opinions and see if a consensus emerges. I personally always run lintian
> with -iI --show-overrides, so I'm clearly not the target audience for this
> feature one way or the other. Here are the options:
>
> * Show the N: line with a count of overrides per package by default and
> provide an option to suppress this output if someone wants.
>
> * Don't show the N: line by default and provide an option to turn it on.
>
> Which should we do?

We should show the N: line by default and have an option to suppress the
output.

> Separately, I'm working on adding lintian overrides to the lintian.d.o
> pages to make it easier to see how people are using overrides across the
> whole archive. It looks like people sometimes just add an override when
> lintian makes a mistake rather than filing a bug, so this gives us a
> fighting chance of finding those bugs and fixing them. It also uncovers
> some fascinating overrides currently in the archive.

Great!

Cheers

Luk


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Old 01-03-2008, 06:29 AM
Bart Martens
 
Default Opinions needed: reporting lintian overrides

On Wed, 2008-01-02 at 22:30 -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> After a recent problem with a package with a fairly egregious error that
> was overridden, hurting the ability of the sponsor to notice it, I added a
> line of output to the default lintian output saying if any package
> overrides error or warning tags.
>
> As I sort of suspected at the time, someone else has now objected to
> having this output by default on the grounds that the point of the
> override was to shut lintian up and it's easier to verify that lintian
> produces no output.
>
> I'd really like to not have to make this decision myself. I'd like to get
> opinions and see if a consensus emerges.

I prefer that lintian messages are silently overridden.

> I personally always run lintian
> with -iI --show-overrides, so I'm clearly not the target audience for this
> feature one way or the other. Here are the options:
>
> * Show the N: line with a count of overrides per package by default and
> provide an option to suppress this output if someone wants.
>
> * Don't show the N: line by default and provide an option to turn it on.
>
> Which should we do?

I prefer the second option.

Regards,

Bart Martens



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Old 01-03-2008, 06:31 AM
Raphael Hertzog
 
Default Opinions needed: reporting lintian overrides

On Thu, 03 Jan 2008, Luk Claes wrote:
> > * Show the N: line with a count of overrides per package by default and
> > provide an option to suppress this output if someone wants.
> >
> > * Don't show the N: line by default and provide an option to turn it on.
> >
> > Which should we do?
>
> We should show the N: line by default and have an option to suppress the
> output.

I agree. Although I think that it would be better if there could be a
single line indicating overrides on everything that got scanned by
lintian.

Currently on dpkg I have 4 N: lines: one per deb + one for the .dsc. That
clutters the output a bit too much to my taste. And ideally it should be at
the end of the output (or at the beginning) but not spread in the output.

Cheers,
--
Raphaël Hertzog

Le best-seller français mis à jour pour Debian Etch :
http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/


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Old 01-03-2008, 06:39 AM
Russ Allbery
 
Default Opinions needed: reporting lintian overrides

Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> writes:

> I agree. Although I think that it would be better if there could be a
> single line indicating overrides on everything that got scanned by
> lintian.

Hm, that's another option. That's kind of hard to do with the current
lintian architecture, I think, since I think we may reset all the tag
counts between packages, but I may be wrong.

> Currently on dpkg I have 4 N: lines: one per deb + one for the
> .dsc. That clutters the output a bit too much to my taste. And ideally
> it should be at the end of the output (or at the beginning) but not
> spread in the output.

I was going to ask: why does dpkg have (and override lintian warnings for)
Bugs and Origin fields? It's the only package in the archive with those
fields set to their default values.

redundant-bugs-field (0 packages, 0 tags, plus 3 overrides)
redundant-origin-field (0 packages, 0 tags, plus 4 overrides)

windlord:~> lintian-info -t redundant-bugs-field redundant-origin-field
N: redundant-bugs-field
N:
N: You use the Bugs field though the field value is the default
N: (debbugs://bugs.debian.org/). In this case the field is redundant and
N: should be removed.
N:
N: redundant-origin-field
N:
N: You use the Origin field though the field value is the default
N: (Debian). In this case the field is redundant and should be removed.
N:

--
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>


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Old 01-03-2008, 06:51 AM
Neil Williams
 
Default Opinions needed: reporting lintian overrides

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 22:30:09 -0800
Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> wrote:

> After a recent problem with a package with a fairly egregious error that
> was overridden, hurting the ability of the sponsor to notice it, I added a
> line of output to the default lintian output saying if any package
> overrides error or warning tags.

> I'd really like to not have to make this decision myself. I'd like to get
> opinions and see if a consensus emerges. I personally always run lintian
> with -iI --show-overrides, so I'm clearly not the target audience for this
> feature one way or the other.

As a sponsor, I'd rather have lintian silent on overrides by default
and use an alias to show overrides in my shell. That allows me to have
silent output in pbuilder builds and obvious override notices in other
builds.

> Here are the options:
>
> * Show the N: line with a count of overrides per package by default and
> provide an option to suppress this output if someone wants.
>
> * Don't show the N: line by default and provide an option to turn it on.

Second option would be my choice.

> Separately, I'm working on adding lintian overrides to the lintian.d.o
> pages to make it easier to see how people are using overrides across the
> whole archive. It looks like people sometimes just add an override when
> lintian makes a mistake rather than filing a bug, so this gives us a
> fighting chance of finding those bugs and fixing them. It also uncovers
> some fascinating overrides currently in the archive.

That would be extremely useful - thank you.

> Oh, and there are 1759 unused overrides in the archive in 369 packages.
> lintian -i will tell you about unused overrides. We do fix false-positive
> bugs!

Having an alias to show overrides would make it easier to spot those
too.

--

Neil Williams
=============
http://www.data-freedom.org/
http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/
 
Old 01-03-2008, 06:55 AM
Raphael Hertzog
 
Default Opinions needed: reporting lintian overrides

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > Currently on dpkg I have 4 N: lines: one per deb + one for the
> > .dsc. That clutters the output a bit too much to my taste. And ideally
> > it should be at the end of the output (or at the beginning) but not
> > spread in the output.
>
> I was going to ask: why does dpkg have (and override lintian warnings for)
> Bugs and Origin fields? It's the only package in the archive with those
> fields set to their default values.
>
> redundant-bugs-field (0 packages, 0 tags, plus 3 overrides)
> redundant-origin-field (0 packages, 0 tags, plus 4 overrides)

Hum... I don't know. It looks like it got added by Wichert Akkerman in
2000:
* Add Origin and Bugs fields to the control file

And the lintian overrides got added by Guillem last year.

Cheers,
--
Raphaël Hertzog

Le best-seller français mis à jour pour Debian Etch :
http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/


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Old 01-03-2008, 06:58 AM
Andreas Tille
 
Default Opinions needed: reporting lintian overrides

On Wed, 2 Jan 2008, Russ Allbery wrote:


After a recent problem with a package with a fairly egregious error that
was overridden, hurting the ability of the sponsor to notice it, I added a
line of output to the default lintian output saying if any package
overrides error or warning tags.


What about a summary line:

lintian detected: x_e errors, x_w warnings, o_e errors and o_w warnings were overridden

(in case o_e and o_w are different from 0).

Kind regards

Andreas.

--
http://fam-tille.de


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Old 01-03-2008, 07:08 AM
Russ Allbery
 
Default Opinions needed: reporting lintian overrides

Andreas Tille <tillea@rki.de> writes:
> On Wed, 2 Jan 2008, Russ Allbery wrote:

>> After a recent problem with a package with a fairly egregious error
>> that was overridden, hurting the ability of the sponsor to notice it, I
>> added a line of output to the default lintian output saying if any
>> package overrides error or warning tags.
>
> What about a summary line:
>
> lintian detected: x_e errors, x_w warnings, o_e errors and o_w warnings were overridden
>
> (in case o_e and o_w are different from 0).

Yeah, that's kind of what we have now except without the summary of
regular tags. (I was trying hard to keep the line under 80 columns while
still putting the file name in the output in case someone was trying to
parse it later with a script or something, but having the file name is
probably not horribly useful.) The difference is that right now it does
it per-package. I'll take a look, regardless of the outcome of this
discussion, at what it would take to do it per-run instead.

--
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>


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