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Old 03-12-2009, 09:13 AM
Guus Sliepen
 
Default Bug#519339: ITP: tmux -- an alternative to screen, licensed under 3-BSD

On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 11:56:01PM +0100, Karl Ferdinand Ebert wrote:

> * Package name : tmux
> Description : an alternative to screen, licensed under 3-BSD

The short description should stand on its own, not reference other software.
You can mention this package's relation with screen in the long description.
You also should not mention its license in the long or short description,
that's what the copyright file is for. The short description should probably
just be "terminal multiplexer".

--
Met vriendelijke groet / with kind regards,
Guus Sliepen <guus@debian.org>
 
Old 03-12-2009, 03:50 PM
William Pitcock
 
Default Bug#519339: ITP: tmux -- an alternative to screen, licensed under 3-BSD

On Wed, 2009-03-11 at 23:56 +0100, Karl Ferdinand Ebert wrote:
> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> Owner: Karl Ferdinand Ebert <kfebert@gmail.com>
>
> * Package name : tmux
> Version : 0.7
> Upstream Author : Nicholas Marriott <nicm@users.sf.net>
> * URL : http://sf.net/projects/tmux
> * License : BSD
> Programming Lang: C
> Description : an alternative to screen, licensed under 3-BSD
>
> tmux enables a number of terminals (or windows) to be accessed and
> controlled from a single terminal. tmux runs as a server-client system.
> A server is created automatically when necessary and holds a number of
> sessions, each of which may have a number of windows linked to it.
> Any number of clients may connect to a session, or the server may be
> controlled by issuing commands with tmux. Communication takes place
> through a socket, by default placed in /tmp.

What does this have over screen, other than being BSD licensed?

The design of tmux seems less secure, too.

William
 
Old 03-12-2009, 08:43 PM
Steve Kemp
 
Default Bug#519339: ITP: tmux -- an alternative to screen, licensed under 3-BSD

On Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 22:37:41 +0100, Karl Ferdinand Ebert wrote:

> - a more usable status line syntax, with the ability to display the first line
> of output of a specific command;

That is also possible in GNU Screen.

> - a cleaner, modern, easily extended, BSD-licensed codebase.

That would be a nice bonus. Frankly the GNU Screen codebase
is very messy. (I've worked with it a fair bit.)

> > The design of tmux seems less secure, too.
>
> In which way is it less secure?

I've not looked at this at all - but the idea of shared sockets
in /tmp which I recall from a previous message in the thread jumped out
at me as being a recipe for symlink attacks, if nothing else.

Steve
--
Try out tscreen - My fork of GNU Screen:
http://www.steve.org.uk/Software/tscreen


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Old 03-12-2009, 09:17 PM
Guus Sliepen
 
Default Bug#519339: ITP: tmux -- an alternative to screen, licensed under 3-BSD

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 10:37:41PM +0100, Karl Ferdinand Ebert wrote:

> > The short description should stand on its own, not reference other
> > software.
>
> The short description had been "terminal multiplexer" from the first packaging
> attempts but I did not know it had to be the line in the bug report.

The title of the ITP is OK.

> description is extended with details from the FAQ:
>
> * How is tmux different from GNU screen? What else does it offer?
>
> tmux offers several advantages over screen:
>
> - a clearly-defined client-server model: windows are independent entities
> which
> may be attached simultaneously to multiple sessions and viewed from multiple
> clients (terminals), as well as moved freely between sessions within the
> same tmux server;

I do not really see anything here that screen can't do...

> - a consistent, well-documented command interface, with the same syntax
> whether used interactively, as a key binding, or from the shell;

This is something screen also has.

> - easily scriptable from the shell;

You can also script screen from the shell.

> - multiple paste buffers;

Screen has a single so-called pastebuffer but allows you to easily move it to
and from "registers" or named files, effectively giving you multiple paste
buffers.

> - choice of vim or emacs key layouts;

Screen has both vi and emacs style bindings, some work concurrently.

> - an option to limit the window size;

Also something screen can do.

> - a more usable status line syntax, with the ability to display the first line
> of output of a specific command;

I don't know about that.

> - a cleaner, modern, easily extended, BSD-licensed codebase.

That is not an important feature for binary packages of course, but you can
mention this.

Almost all of these "advantages over screen" are "features shared with screen".
Maybe some of them are a bit easier to use in tmux, but that is all as far is I
can see. I would therefore not mention these things in the long description.

--
Met vriendelijke groet / with kind regards,
Guus Sliepen <guus@debian.org>
 
Old 03-12-2009, 09:59 PM
Carsten Hey
 
Default Bug#519339: ITP: tmux -- an alternative to screen, licensed under 3-BSD

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 11:17:02PM +0100, Guus Sliepen wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 10:37:41PM +0100, Karl Ferdinand Ebert wrote:
> > - a clearly-defined client-server model: windows are independent
> > entities which may be attached simultaneously to multiple sessions
> > and viewed from multiple clients (terminals), as well as moved
> > freely between sessions within the same tmux server;
>
> I do not really see anything here that screen can't do...

GNU screen can't move one window from one session to another or attach
one window to two session.


Regards,
Carsten


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Old 03-13-2009, 06:12 AM
Mike Hommey
 
Default Bug#519339: ITP: tmux -- an alternative to screen, licensed under 3-BSD

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 09:43:37PM +0000, Steve Kemp wrote:
> On Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 22:37:41 +0100, Karl Ferdinand Ebert wrote:
>
> > - a more usable status line syntax, with the ability to display the first line
> > of output of a specific command;
>
> That is also possible in GNU Screen.
>
> > - a cleaner, modern, easily extended, BSD-licensed codebase.
>
> That would be a nice bonus. Frankly the GNU Screen codebase
> is very messy. (I've worked with it a fair bit.)
>
> > > The design of tmux seems less secure, too.
> >
> > In which way is it less secure?
>
> I've not looked at this at all - but the idea of shared sockets
> in /tmp which I recall from a previous message in the thread jumped out
> at me as being a recipe for symlink attacks, if nothing else.

Screen does that too, so that would hardly be less secure than screen.

Mike


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Old 03-13-2009, 06:36 AM
Iustin Pop
 
Default Bug#519339: ITP: tmux -- an alternative to screen, licensed under 3-BSD

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 11:59:00PM +0100, Carsten Hey wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 11:17:02PM +0100, Guus Sliepen wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 10:37:41PM +0100, Karl Ferdinand Ebert wrote:
> > > - a clearly-defined client-server model: windows are independent
> > > entities which may be attached simultaneously to multiple sessions
> > > and viewed from multiple clients (terminals), as well as moved
> > > freely between sessions within the same tmux server;
> >
> > I do not really see anything here that screen can't do...
>
> GNU screen can't move one window from one session to another or attach
> one window to two session.

Maybe not, but since I can view a window with two clients anyway, what
advantage does "attaching one window to two sessions" bring? What is the
intended use-case?

regards,
iustin


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Old 03-13-2009, 04:19 PM
Peter Samuelson
 
Default Bug#519339: ITP: tmux -- an alternative to screen, licensed under 3-BSD

> > I've not looked at this at all - but the idea of shared sockets
> > in /tmp which I recall from a previous message in the thread jumped out
> > at me as being a recipe for symlink attacks, if nothing else.

[Mike Hommey]
> Screen does that too, so that would hardly be less secure than screen.

Well, if by "in /tmp" you mean "in /var/run/screen".
--
Peter Samuelson | org-tld!p12n!peter | http://p12n.org/


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Old 03-13-2009, 05:22 PM
Mike Hommey
 
Default Bug#519339: ITP: tmux -- an alternative to screen, licensed under 3-BSD

On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 12:19:40PM -0500, Peter Samuelson wrote:
>
> > > I've not looked at this at all - but the idea of shared sockets
> > > in /tmp which I recall from a previous message in the thread jumped out
> > > at me as being a recipe for symlink attacks, if nothing else.
>
> [Mike Hommey]
> > Screen does that too, so that would hardly be less secure than screen.
>
> Well, if by "in /tmp" you mean "in /var/run/screen".

Well, that's a Debian thing. Upstream default is /tmp/screens, and last
time I checked on RH, it was there too.

Mike


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