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Old 03-11-2009, 04:46 PM
Clint Adams
 
Default Breaking /emul/ia32-linux for squeeze

It may be time to change packages installing files to
/emul/ia32-linux (which violates the FHS) to use
/usr/lib32 instead.

I believe the affected packages are

fakechroot
fakeroot
gnu-efi
ia32-libs
ia32-libs-gtk
lib32asound2
lib32asound2-dev
lib32bz2-1.0
lib32bz2-dev
lib32ffi5
lib32ffi-dev
lib32gcc1
lib32gfortran2
lib32gfortran3
lib32gomp1
lib32icu38
lib32icu-dev
lib32mudflap0
lib32ncurses5
lib32ncurses5-dev
lib32ncursesw5
lib32ncursesw5-dev
lib32nss-mdns
lib32objc2
lib32readline5
lib32readline5-dev
lib32stdc++6
lib32stdc++6-4.1-dbg
lib32stdc++6-4.2-dbg
lib32stdc++6-4.2-dbg
lib32stdc++6-4.3-dbg
lib32z1
lib32z1-dev
libc6-dev-i386
libc6-i386

glibc will need to change first, and the remaining
packages will be broken until they are changed as well.


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Old 03-11-2009, 04:54 PM
Aníbal Monsalve Salazar
 
Default Breaking /emul/ia32-linux for squeeze

On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 05:46:31PM +0000, Clint Adams wrote:
>glibc will need to change first, and the remaining
>packages will be broken until they are changed as well.

Do you have a date for the glibc change?


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Old 03-11-2009, 07:12 PM
Kurt Roeckx
 
Default Breaking /emul/ia32-linux for squeeze

On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 05:46:31PM +0000, Clint Adams wrote:
> It may be time to change packages installing files to
> /emul/ia32-linux (which violates the FHS) to use
> /usr/lib32 instead.

/usr/lib32 isn't exactly FHS either, but it's better than
/emul/ia32-linux

Will this also change for ia64? As far as I know, there that path
is hardcoded in the kernel.


Kurt


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Old 03-11-2009, 08:36 PM
"Michael S. Gilbert"
 
Default Breaking /emul/ia32-linux for squeeze

On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 21:12:31 +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 05:46:31PM +0000, Clint Adams wrote:
> > It may be time to change packages installing files to
> > /emul/ia32-linux (which violates the FHS) to use
> > /usr/lib32 instead.
>
> /usr/lib32 isn't exactly FHS either, but it's better than
> /emul/ia32-linux
>
> Will this also change for ia64? As far as I know, there that path
> is hardcoded in the kernel.

Is this necessary? There are already softlinks set up:
/usr/lib32->/emul/ia32-linux/usr/lib and /lib32->/emul/ia32-linux/lib.

If debian is going to go down this road, then I think plain old lib
should also get removed in the process (e.g. put everything into either
lib32 or lib64; temporarily provide a lib softlink until a full
transition happens). This could make a 64 to 128 (or other bitness)
transition and associated backwards-compatibility easier, perhaps...

Mike


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Old 03-11-2009, 09:16 PM
Tollef Fog Heen
 
Default Breaking /emul/ia32-linux for squeeze

]] Clint Adams

| It may be time to change packages installing files to
| /emul/ia32-linux (which violates the FHS) to use
| /usr/lib32 instead.

Could we pretty please use the multiarch paths here if we start moving
stuff around? We're going to need to patch gcc/binutils if we're to
compile stuff against those paths anyway.

--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are


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Old 03-11-2009, 09:50 PM
Clint Adams
 
Default Breaking /emul/ia32-linux for squeeze

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 04:54:51AM +1100, Aníbal Monsalve Salazar wrote:
> Do you have a date for the glibc change?

I was hoping for pretty soon after a thorough discussion.


On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 09:12:31PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> /usr/lib32 isn't exactly FHS either, but it's better than
> /emul/ia32-linux
>
> Will this also change for ia64? As far as I know, there that path
> is hardcoded in the kernel.

Can you be more specific? I'm not aware of this.


On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 05:36:26PM -0400, Michael S. Gilbert wrote:
> Is this necessary? There are already softlinks set up:
> /usr/lib32->/emul/ia32-linux/usr/lib and /lib32->/emul/ia32-linux/lib.

It's not necessary any more than conforming to standards is necessary.
We could just as easily move everytihng to /Library, but that would
upset people just as much as /emul does.


> If debian is going to go down this road, then I think plain old lib
> should also get removed in the process (e.g. put everything into either
> lib32 or lib64; temporarily provide a lib softlink until a full
> transition happens). This could make a 64 to 128 (or other bitness)
> transition and associated backwards-compatibility easier, perhaps...

That is a far more disruptive change than what I had intended.


On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 11:16:47PM +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> Could we pretty please use the multiarch paths here if we start moving
> stuff around? We're going to need to patch gcc/binutils if we're to
> compile stuff against those paths anyway.

By multiarch paths, you mean /usr/lib/i386-linux/ in this case?
I'm fine with doing that and changing both /usr/lib32 and /emul/ia32-linux
to be symlinks thither for the time being.


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Old 03-11-2009, 10:07 PM
Roger Leigh
 
Default Breaking /emul/ia32-linux for squeeze

On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 05:46:31PM +0000, Clint Adams wrote:
> It may be time to change packages installing files to
> /emul/ia32-linux (which violates the FHS) to use
> /usr/lib32 instead.

While I hate /emul with a passion (another top level dir filling up my
root filesystem), shouldn't we be using arch triplets here to get real
flexibility?


Regards,
Roger

--
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Old 03-11-2009, 10:38 PM
Kurt Roeckx
 
Default Breaking /emul/ia32-linux for squeeze

On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:50:23PM +0000, Clint Adams wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 09:12:31PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> > /usr/lib32 isn't exactly FHS either, but it's better than
> > /emul/ia32-linux
> >
> > Will this also change for ia64? As far as I know, there that path
> > is hardcoded in the kernel.
>
> Can you be more specific? I'm not aware of this.

If you're going to keep a symlink, I don't see how it could be
a problem.

The /emul/ia32-linux is something we get from ia64. See #441339


Kurt


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Old 03-12-2009, 03:55 AM
Steve Langasek
 
Default Breaking /emul/ia32-linux for squeeze

On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 11:16:47PM +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> ]] Clint Adams

> | It may be time to change packages installing files to
> | /emul/ia32-linux (which violates the FHS) to use
> | /usr/lib32 instead.

> Could we pretty please use the multiarch paths here if we start moving
> stuff around? We're going to need to patch gcc/binutils if we're to
> compile stuff against those paths anyway.

What transitional issues is that going to cause us if and when multiarch
becomes generally available, if biarch packages start using the path now?

--
Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/
slangasek@ubuntu.com vorlon@debian.org


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Old 03-12-2009, 04:10 AM
Steve Langasek
 
Default Breaking /emul/ia32-linux for squeeze

On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:50:23PM +0000, Clint Adams wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 05:36:26PM -0400, Michael S. Gilbert wrote:
> > Is this necessary? There are already softlinks set up:
> > /usr/lib32->/emul/ia32-linux/usr/lib and /lib32->/emul/ia32-linux/lib.

> It's not necessary any more than conforming to standards is necessary.
> We could just as easily move everytihng to /Library, but that would
> upset people just as much as /emul does.

But moving the 32-bit libs to /usr/lib32 does not make us
standards-conformant on amd64, because the FHS (yuckily) standardized on
storing the *32-bit* libs in /usr/lib on this architecture, with 64-bit libs
in /usr/lib64.

We'll only ever conform to this part of the standard if a) someone fixes the
standard, or b) someone goes to the herculean (and insane) effort of moving
all the libs around on amd64.

> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 11:16:47PM +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > Could we pretty please use the multiarch paths here if we start moving
> > stuff around? We're going to need to patch gcc/binutils if we're to
> > compile stuff against those paths anyway.

> By multiarch paths, you mean /usr/lib/i386-linux/ in this case?
> I'm fine with doing that and changing both /usr/lib32 and /emul/ia32-linux
> to be symlinks thither for the time being.

I think we're probably better off reserving /usr/lib/i386-linux for future
use for the time being, but will defer to Tollef if he thinks this is
reasonable to start using here.

--
Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/
slangasek@ubuntu.com vorlon@debian.org


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