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-   -   xcdroast does no longer work with wodim: Who to blame? (http://www.linux-archive.org/debian-development/251786-xcdroast-does-no-longer-work-wodim-who-blame.html)

Andreas Tscharner 02-24-2009 07:14 PM

xcdroast does no longer work with wodim: Who to blame?
 
Hello World,

xcdroast is looking for cdrecord, which does no longer exist in Debian
Sid (apparently). And wodim does no longer provide a symlink as cdrecord
or something (apparently).


So: xcdroast does no longer work. Who is to blame (Bug entry): xcdroats
or wodim?


Best regards
Andreas
--
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(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
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(il).-' (li).' ((!.-'

Andreas Tscharner andy@vis.ethz.ch ICQ-No. 14356454


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Reinhard Tartler 02-24-2009 08:30 PM

xcdroast does no longer work with wodim: Who to blame?
 
Andreas Tscharner <andy@vis.ethz.ch> writes:

> So: xcdroast does no longer work. Who is to blame (Bug entry): xcdroats
> or wodim?

xcdroast

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Gruesse/greetings,
Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4


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02-25-2009 07:28 AM

xcdroast does no longer work with wodim: Who to blame?
 
>xcdroast is looking for cdrecord, which does no longer exist in Debian
>Sid (apparently). And wodim does no longer provide a symlink as cdrecord
>or something (apparently).

>So: xcdroast does no longer work. Who is to blame (Bug entry): xcdroats
>or wodim?

You need to blame the people who are responsible for removing cdrecord
and who started to include a fork (wodim) that cannot be legally distributed.

Just add cdrecord from:

ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/alpha/

and you get a legal and working system.

Jörg

--
EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily


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Steve Langasek 02-25-2009 08:00 AM

xcdroast does no longer work with wodim: Who to blame?
 
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 09:28:28AM +0100, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> >xcdroast is looking for cdrecord, which does no longer exist in Debian
> >Sid (apparently). And wodim does no longer provide a symlink as cdrecord
> >or something (apparently).

> >So: xcdroast does no longer work. Who is to blame (Bug entry): xcdroats
> >or wodim?

It's a bug in the xcdroast package. There is a 'cdrecord' dummy package in
unstable which provides a cdrecord compatibility symlink to wodim, so if a
package invokes cdrecord it's possible to still depend on it. Whoever
updated xcdroast to depend on wodim should have made it call wodim, at the
same time.

--
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Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/
slangasek@ubuntu.com vorlon@debian.org


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gregor herrmann 02-25-2009 09:31 AM

xcdroast does no longer work with wodim: Who to blame?
 
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 01:00:48 -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:

> > >So: xcdroast does no longer work. Who is to blame (Bug entry): xcdroats
> > >or wodim?
> It's a bug in the xcdroast package. There is a 'cdrecord' dummy package in
> unstable which provides a cdrecord compatibility symlink to wodim, so if a
> package invokes cdrecord it's possible to still depend on it. Whoever
> updated xcdroast to depend on wodim should have made it call wodim, at the
> same time.

That's what happened until 0.98+0alpha15-11* [0]; 0.98+0alpha16-1 still
has the patch in the source package but it's commented out in
debian/patches/series [1].

[0] http://bugs.debian.org/386251
[1] http://patch-tracking.debian.net/package/xcdroast

Cheers,
gregor, cc'ing the maintainer

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Josselin Mouette 02-25-2009 09:48 AM

xcdroast does no longer work with wodim: Who to blame?
 
Le mardi 24 février 2009 ā 21:14 +0100, Andreas Tscharner a écrit :
> So: xcdroast does no longer work. Who is to blame (Bug entry): xcdroats
> or wodim?

In the end, the one you have to blame is Joerg Schilling, for forcing us
to change the name of the binary.

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Ben Hutchings 02-26-2009 12:50 AM

xcdroast does no longer work with wodim: Who to blame?
 
On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 09:28 +0100, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> >xcdroast is looking for cdrecord, which does no longer exist in Debian
> >Sid (apparently). And wodim does no longer provide a symlink as cdrecord
> >or something (apparently).
>
> >So: xcdroast does no longer work. Who is to blame (Bug entry): xcdroats
> >or wodim?
>
> You need to blame the people who are responsible for removing cdrecord
> and who started to include a fork (wodim) that cannot be legally distributed.

You're the one who distributes a legally dubious mixture of code covered
by GPLv2 and CDDL.

> Just add cdrecord from:
>
> ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/alpha/
>
> and you get a legal and working system.

If by "working" you mean "complaining about every way that Linux differs
from Schilix". How is Schilix going, by the way? Do you have a second
user yet?

Ben.

02-26-2009 09:27 AM

xcdroast does no longer work with wodim: Who to blame?
 
Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> wrote:

> On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 09:28 +0100, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> > >xcdroast is looking for cdrecord, which does no longer exist in Debian
> > >Sid (apparently). And wodim does no longer provide a symlink as cdrecord
> > >or something (apparently).
> >
> > >So: xcdroast does no longer work. Who is to blame (Bug entry): xcdroats
> > >or wodim?
> >
> > You need to blame the people who are responsible for removing cdrecord
> > and who started to include a fork (wodim) that cannot be legally distributed.
>
> You're the one who distributes a legally dubious mixture of code covered
> by GPLv2 and CDDL.

There is no "dubious" mixture..... even the FSF admits that GPLd code may use
CDDLd libraries from other projects (as done inside cdrtools which is a
collection of sevreral independent projects). The original software had a
full in depth legal review from the Sun legal department and Sun-legal did
not find any problem. Distributions that are interested in shipping working
legal software ship the original software.

The fork distributed by Debian may however be called dubious:

- The fork is in conflict with the Copyright law and thus may not be
legally distributed.

- The fork is in conflict with the GPL and thus may not be legally
distributed.

- The fork is full of bugs that have been introduced by the person who
initiated the fork and for this reason did not get the permission
to use the original name. Note that it is not even allowed to ship
symlinks with the original names as this makes users believe that
they use the original software.

If you like to blame a specific person for the current problems, you need to
blame the person who started the "fork" based on very a outdated version, who
ripped off the working DVD support code, who introduced dozens of new bugs and
who stopped working on the fork on May 6th 2007, leaving the fork
unmaintained. An interesting aspect of this person is that he started to
advertize for Nerolinux after May 6th 2007. It seems that he never was
interested in supporting FROSS but in causing harm for FROSS.

If you look at the bug tracking systems of the Linux distributors that
ship the illegal fork, you see a total of aprox. 100 bugs (many of them are
showstopper bugs) that are specific to the fork..... Upgrading to recent
original software from:

ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/alpha/

fixes all bugs from the bug-tracking systems that are not caused by packaging,
bugs in the Linux kernel or bugs in the Linux variant of hald.


What is the reason for shipping software that is undistributable and that
disgusts the Debian users because it is full of unneeded bugs?

If Debian is interested in being a FROSS oriented distro that listenes to the
demands of their users, it seems to be obvious to admit that following the
person who introduced the fork was a mistake. He is longer active at Debian,
it should be simple to write a note on that this person caused harm to the
credibility of Debian and to this way correct a previous mistake.

Jörg

--
EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily


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Alexander Reichle-Schmehl 02-26-2009 10:58 AM

xcdroast does no longer work with wodim: Who to blame?
 
Hi!

Ben Hutchings schrieb:
> On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 09:28 +0100, Joerg Schilling wrote:
>>> [..] cdrecord [..]
>>> [..] wodim [..]

Please, not again. The arguments have been exchanged ad invinitum a couple
of times already. So if there is nothing new to bring up, please don't
restart the discussion.


Best regards,
Alexander


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Brett Parker 02-26-2009 11:46 AM

xcdroast does no longer work with wodim: Who to blame?
 
On 26 Feb 11:27, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> - The fork is in conflict with the Copyright law and thus may not be
> legally distributed.

Err, it's a fork of the GPL2 code, before you went insane and relicenced
half of it to CDDL and added random "Don't change this" invariant
sections - how do you see it conflicting with Copyright law?

> - The fork is in conflict with the GPL and thus may not be legally
> distributed.

Errr, in what way?

> - The fork is full of bugs that have been introduced by the person who
> initiated the fork and for this reason did not get the permission
> to use the original name. Note that it is not even allowed to ship
> symlinks with the original names as this makes users believe that
> they use the original software.

As someone that uses wodim quite a bit, I've not noticed it to be "full
of bugs", so I'd suggest that you're spreading FUD and hoping that no
one notices.

> If you like to blame a specific person for the current problems, you need to
> blame the person who started the "fork" based on very a outdated version, who
> ripped off the working DVD support code, who introduced dozens of new bugs and
> who stopped working on the fork on May 6th 2007, leaving the fork
> unmaintained. An interesting aspect of this person is that he started to
> advertize for Nerolinux after May 6th 2007. It seems that he never was
> interested in supporting FROSS but in causing harm for FROSS.

Very outdated version because of the licencing issues introduced by you
stopping a fork at any later version...

> If you look at the bug tracking systems of the Linux distributors that
> ship the illegal fork, you see a total of aprox. 100 bugs (many of them are
> showstopper bugs) that are specific to the fork..... Upgrading to recent
> original software from:
>
> ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/alpha/

The fact that says 'alpha' of course inspires us all with confidence.

> fixes all bugs from the bug-tracking systems that are not caused by packaging,
> bugs in the Linux kernel or bugs in the Linux variant of hald.

So, it doesn't fix all the bugs, then. So, that's completely irrelevant,
you still have bugs. Well done.

> What is the reason for shipping software that is undistributable and that
> disgusts the Debian users because it is full of unneeded bugs?

Err, being a long term Debian user, I'd like to know where you get the
impression that it "disgusts Debian users" - you appear to be confusing
yourself with a Debian users. As I understand it, you wouldn't use a
Debian system if it was the last system available on earth, and so you
don't qualify as a user. Sorry.

> If Debian is interested in being a FROSS oriented distro that listenes to the
> demands of their users, it seems to be obvious to admit that following the
> person who introduced the fork was a mistake. He is longer active at Debian,
> it should be simple to write a note on that this person caused harm to the
> credibility of Debian and to this way correct a previous mistake.

Errr. Right. I think you are mistaken. Now, according to you nothing has
changed since May 2007, I can see - clearly - from
http://www.cdrkit.org/ that the last release was actually 2008/10/26,
I'd suggest that's neither 2007, or May. On the other hand, maybe I'm
incapable of parsing dates or actually looking things up.

Ho hum,
--
Brett Parker
Everything in this mail is my opinion. So there.


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