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Old 02-15-2009, 09:34 AM
Neil Williams
 
Default Emdebian version strings and the BTS

if you start seeing bugs or getting email about your packages where the
version string ends in em[0-9], or where dependencies mentioned by
reportbug include such a version suffix, the user is running one of the
two Emdebian distributions released alongside lenny (and based on lenny
packages). You might also see Emdebian in the output of 'apt-cache
policy' if your bug reports request or supply such data.

If there is any doubt that the bug is present in Debian, please
immediately re-assign the bug to the buildd.emdebian.org pseudo-package
in the BTS.

A patch for reportbug is being tested. A large proportion of the
development work to actually get Emdebian to the point of two releases
only happened after the lenny freeze began. (Not the recent deep
freeze, the initial toolchain freeze before DebConf8). (reportbug
itself is not currently part of Emdebian for a variety of reasons.)

Emdebian only uses a small subset of Debian packages, so this
principally involves the core packages in Debian, GTK+2.0 and
dependencies, XFCE and GPE as well as a small number of applications
like iceweasel, sylpheed, xchat-gnome and grisbi.

Emdebian Grip 1.0 (lenny)
-------------------------

A small Debian-compatible Emdebian installation

Architectures: i386, amd64, powerpc, arm, armel, mips and mipsel

Emdebian Grip explicitly supports mixing Debian and Emdebian and that
is how a Debian package could end up depending on a package from
Emdebian Grip - this is not expected to be a problem because Grip
packages are binary-compatible with the Debian version, just with some
files removed from the package. (i.e. Grip is post-processed, not
recompiled.) Grip typically comes in at ~600Mb for a full XFCE desktop
and uses the Lenny debian-installer images. (Grip base system ~250Mb.)
I'm currently running Emdebian Grip on my Acer Aspire1.

More information: http://www.emdebian.org/grip/

Emdebian Crush 1.0 (lenny)
--------------------------

The smallest Emdebian installation - cross-built from Debian sources.

Architectures: arm only in 1.0 - more architectures (including
moving from arm to armel) to be in Squeeze.

Crush is the cross-built distribution from Emdebian - significant
functional changes exist compared to the Debian package, libraries have
been recompiled with options turned off and functionality removed etc.
and Crush has dropped support for python or perl, and uses a modified,
more recent version of busybox instead of coreutils. Crush is the
hardest distribution to install, maintain and update and requires
extensive customisation for particular machines with the benefit that
it is an ultimately flexible Debian where the base system (equivalent
to a debootstrap in Debian) can fit into 24Mb installed and a GPE GUI
in 75Mb. uClibc support is expected in Crush 2.0 (squeeze), allowing
sizes to shrink by another 10Mb or so. I'm currently running Emdebian
Crush on my balloon3.

More information: http://www.emdebian.org/crush/

--


Neil Williams
=============
http://www.data-freedom.org/
http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/
 
Old 02-17-2009, 06:50 AM
Tollef Fog Heen
 
Default Emdebian version strings and the BTS

]] Neil Williams

| if you start seeing bugs or getting email about your packages where the
| version string ends in em[0-9], or where dependencies mentioned by
| reportbug include such a version suffix, the user is running one of the
| two Emdebian distributions released alongside lenny (and based on lenny
| packages). You might also see Emdebian in the output of 'apt-cache
| policy' if your bug reports request or supply such data.
|
| If there is any doubt that the bug is present in Debian, please
| immediately re-assign the bug to the buildd.emdebian.org pseudo-package
| in the BTS.

Why should those bugs not first be filed in the emdebian bug tracker and
if appropriate filed in the Debian BTS too? This is what other, say,
Ubuntu do. At least for your
recompiled-with-other-options-and-random-bits-stripped-out variant, this
seems much more appropriate than assuming the bugs actually exists in
Debian in the first place.

--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are


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Old 02-17-2009, 06:06 PM
Neil Williams
 
Default Emdebian version strings and the BTS

On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 08:50:59 +0100
Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> wrote:

> ]] Neil Williams
>
> | if you start seeing bugs or getting email about your packages where the
> | version string ends in em[0-9], or where dependencies mentioned by
> | reportbug include such a version suffix, the user is running one of the
> | two Emdebian distributions released alongside lenny (and based on lenny
> | packages). You might also see Emdebian in the output of 'apt-cache
> | policy' if your bug reports request or supply such data.
> |
> | If there is any doubt that the bug is present in Debian, please
> | immediately re-assign the bug to the buildd.emdebian.org pseudo-package
> | in the BTS.
>
> Why should those bugs not first be filed in the emdebian bug tracker and
> if appropriate filed in the Debian BTS too?

Emdebian does not have a bug tracker separate from Debian - Emdebian
only uses the Debian BTS via the buildd.emdebian.org pseudo-package in
the Debian BTS (and a few user tags). Users are advised to report bugs
to the pseudo-package but all the development for Grip happened during
the release freeze for Lenny, so none of the bug reporting tools could
be adapted to suit within that time frame. (Grip does not recompile any
packages).

Emdebian is not separate from Debian, Emdebian is Debian (just
smaller) and there is no desire for any separation - especially in bug
trackers. Neither Emdebian variant changes the output of lsb_release, or
re-brands any of the Debian content or modifies any of the themes or
adds any content that is Emdebian-specific except that which is
absolutely necessary for the system to work on the target device. Suite
names and codenames are identical, release schedules are identical -
an Emdebian box is Debian, just a smaller Debian. Once installation is
complete, the only signs that you are running Emdebian are:
1. the version suffix of packages
2. the smaller installation size
3. the repository name
4. (in Crush only) some reduced package functionality to cut out
unwanted dependency chains (like LDAP) or due to the removal of other
packages (like perl or python).

If other differences do appear at runtime, feel free to report those as
bugs - via the buildd.emdebian.org pseudo-package in the Debian BTS.

You won't find an Emdebian logo anywhere in either Crush or Grip - it's
all the original Debian content.

For more on how Emdebian and Debian work together, see:
http://www.emdebian.org/emdebian/emdebian.html

> At least for your
> recompiled-with-other-options-and-random-bits-stripped-out variant, this
> seems much more appropriate than assuming the bugs actually exists in
> Debian in the first place.

Indeed, so Crush does advise that bugs should be filed against the
pseudo-package in the Debian BTS. (Crush itself does not currently
provide reportbug because python - like perl - is simply too big.)

I probably should have stated that users are advised to use the
pseudo-package in the BTS (or debian-embedded@lists.debian.org) directly
and that bugs filed against the Debian package are probably a mistake -
at least unless re-assigned or cloned from a bug already filed against
the pseudo-package buildd.emdebian.org.

--


Neil Williams
=============
http://www.data-freedom.org/
http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/
 

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