Hi,

GTK+ 1.2 has been deprecated upstream for 6 years. There is no security
support for it, and no new applications using it have been out for quite
a long time as well.

I think it is more than time to remove it from the archive. Of course,
this can only be done after we have dealt with the reverse dependencies.
For them, there are not many solutions:
* Look for alternatives using GTK+ 2.x. For most utilities and
games, they already exist, whether already in the archive or
somewhere else ready to be packaged.
* Port to GTK+ 2.x. Depending on the application, this can be a
trivial or very large task, and it requires a bit of motivation.
* Simply drop the application from the archive.


Here is a first list of packages that could either be removed right now
because they seem to have replacements, or updated with little work. If
there are no objections, I think we should ask for removal of all of
those which don’t have a GTK+ 2 version.

Guenter Geiger (Debian/GNU) <geiger@debian.org>
shaketracker
=> we have other sequencers in the archive
swami
=> upstream is currently porting it to GTK+ 2

Marc Dequènes (Duck) <Duck@DuckCorp.org>
worlded
=> no upstream news for 4 years, we have better such games in the
archive

Jari Aalto <jari.aalto@cante.net>
gcrontab
=> gnome-schedule

Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org>
gtimer
=> hamster-applet, gnotime

Ben Armstrong <synrg@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca>
snowflake
=> just a toy

Ernesto Nadir Crespo Avila <ecrespo@debianvenezuela.org>
xwhois
=> gnome-nettool

Bradley Bell <btb@debian.org>
gtkmm

Jon Bernard <jbernard@debian.org>
e16menuedit
=> we don’t ship E16 anymore

Adrian Bridgett <bridgett@debian.org>
gato
=> gnome-schedule

Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt <he@debian.org>
wmclockmon
=> Yet Another WindowMaker Applet

Mark Brown <broonie@debian.org>
powertweak
=> Is that still relevant with modern power management policies?

Daniel Burrows <dburrows@debian.org>
xarchon
=> Unmaintained upstream for 5 years, we’re not lacking games
xpuyopuyo
=> flobopuyo, cuyo…

Ross Burton <ross@burtonini.com>
gtk-engines-lighthouseblue

Patryk Cisek <patryk@prezu.one.pl>
kadu
=> pidgin

Debian Electronics Team <pkg-electronics-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>
gwave
=> gtkwave

Debian Games Team <pkg-games-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>
lmemory
=> gcompris ?

Tim Dijkstra <tim@famdijkstra.org>
digitaldj
=> prokyon3

Randall Donald <rdonald@debian.org>
gradio
=> gnomeradio

Peter Eisentraut <petere@debian.org>
pinentry
=> just need to disable the GTK+ 1.2 build

Rene Engelhard <rene@debian.org>
aria
=> gwget
manedit
=> gmanedit

Devid Filoni <d.filoni@techemail.com>
dillo
=> there is a new upstream based on FLTK

Bdale Garbee <bdale@gag.com>
predict (U)

Debian QA Group <packages@qa.debian.org>
gnome-libs
gtkfontsel
gtkglarea
imlib
netdude
sqlrelay
stegdetect

=> QA-maintained packages should be removed as soon as they don’t have
remaining rdeps

Steinar H. Gunderson <sesse@debian.org>
amoeba
=> just a toy, and we have rss-glx

Wartan Hachaturow <wart@debian.org>
grpn
=> calcoo

John Hasler <john@dhh.gt.org>
gpppon
=> gnome-ppp

Uwe Hermann <uwe@debian.org>
cccd
=> we have so many CD players that I won’t list them
powershell
=> gnome-terminal, xfterm…

Alberto Gonzalez Iniesta <agi@inittab.org>
gqcam
=> cheese…

Joerg Jaspert <joerg@debian.org>
xbindkeys-config
=> I think we have quite a number of key->event managers already

Steffen Joeris <white@debian.org>
xoscope
=> extace

Matthew Johnson <mjj29@debian.org>
gbib
=> pybliographer ?

Daniel Kobras <kobras@debian.org>
libdv
=> we just need to stop building libdv-bin

Alexander Kotelnikov <sacha@debian.org>
fvwm (U)

Antonin Kral <A.Kral@sh.cvut.cz>
gtkguitune
=> lingot

Noèl Köthe <noel@debian.org>
mbrowse
=> tkmib + at least 2 online services doing the same

Wesley J. Landaker <wjl@icecavern.net>
gwave (U)

Chris Lawrence <lawrencc@debian.org>
gnome-lokkit
=> so many iptables frontends…

Ron Lee <ron@debian.org>
wxwindows2.4
=> no remaining rdeps

Jacob Luna Lundberg <jacob@gnifty.net>
xscorch
=> atanks, scorched3d

Eduardo Marcel Macan <macan@debian.org>
vertex
=> blender ?

Camm Maguire <camm@enhanced.com>
codebreaker
=> gnome-mastermind

OHURA Makoto <ohura@debian.org>
tex-guy
=> xgdvi can be replaced by evince and many others
xemacs21
=> maybe we need to wait for emacs23

Paul Mangan <claws@thewildbeast.co.uk>
sylpheed-gtk1 (U)

Bart Martens <bartm@debian.org>
qiv
=> yay, an image viewer

GOTO Masanori <gotom@debian.org>
lm-batmon
=> yay, a battery monitor

Hamish Moffatt <hamish@debian.org>
guile-gtk-1.2
gwave (U)

Ricardo Mones <mones@debian.org>
sylpheed-gtk1
=> sylpheed-claws

Stephen M Moraco <stephen@debian.org>
karpski
=> wireshark

Ryan Murray <rmurray@debian.org>
gdk-pixbuf

Francesco Namuri <francesco@namuri.it>
lopster
=> did you know that Napster was shut down?

Kari Pahula <kaol@debian.org>
crossfire-client
=> just need to disable the GTK+ 1.2 build

Drew Parsons <dparsons@debian.org>
zangband
=> yay, a rogue game

Javier Fernandez-Sanguino Pen~a <jfs@computer.org>
cheops
=> I don’t think we have a similar tool, but all the functionality
should be covered by combining 2 or 3 of them.
i2e
=> We have more generic and modern dictionary tools

VÃ*ctor Pérez Pereira <vperez@debianvenezuela.org>
gfslicer
=> Several tools can build multi-file archives, which boils down to the
same functionality in a more portable way

Frederic Peters <fpeters@debian.org>
gaby
=> I think we have a number of such tools already
geg
=> lybniz, kmplot

Florian Ragwitz <rafl@debian.org>
wmmaiload
=> Yay, a WindowMaker dockapp

Josip Rodin <joy-packages@debian.org>
gbase
=> gcalctool and many others
gentoo
=> yay, a file manager
gman
=> yelp and many others

Miriam Ruiz <little_miry@yahoo.es>
lmemory (U)

Darren Salt <linux@youmustbejoking.demon.co.uk>
libjsw

Stefan Schimanski <schimmi@debian.org>
qtpixmap

Alexander Schmehl <tolimar@debian.org>
xdialog
=> zenity

Alain Schroeder <alain@debian.org>
gsnes9x
=> visualboyadvance ?

Gustavo Noronha Silva <kov@debian.org>
sylpheed-gtk1 (U)

Adeodato Simó <dato@net.com.org.es>
gbuffy
=> Yay, a mail notification tool

Roberto Suarez Soto <turgon@debian.org>
wallp
=> drapes

Wolfgang Sourdeau <was@debian.org>
ghfaxviewer
=> Yay, a picture viewer with a restricted scope

Manoj Srivastava <srivasta@debian.org>
fvwm
=> Why does it depend on both GTK+ 1.2 and 2.x ?

Joop Stakenborg <pa3aba@debian.org>
baycomepp (U)
baycomusb (U)
hf (U)

Roland Stigge <stigge@antcom.de>
gcvs
=> At least the toolkit is assorted to the VCS. Many IDEs or editors
still have a CVS plugin anyway.
gps
=> gnome-system-monitor and many others

Andreas Tille <tille@debian.org>
libgtkimreg
paul
=> Yay, an imaging library and an image viewer

Marcela Tiznado <mlt@debian.org>
gtkgo
=> quarry

Guido Trotter <ultrotter@debian.org>
directory-administrator
=> gq + several web-based such frontends

Junichi Uekawa <dancer@debian.org>
soundtracker
=> there are a few other trackers, especially ardour, although none of
them uses the MOD/XM format

Michael Vogt <mvo@debian.org>
corewars
=> maybe we should package pmars instead?

Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>
putty
=> hotwire, a plain terminal…

Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org>
mountapp
=> yay, a dockapp

Rafal Zawadzki <bluszcz@jabberpl.org>
wmshutdown
=> yay, a dockapp


For the following packages, I didn’t find any trivial solution, so this
needs further investigation.

A. Maitland Bottoms <bottoms@debian.org>
predict

Nicolas Boullis <nboullis@debian.org>
mah-jong

Debian Hamradio Maintainers <debian-hams@lists.debian.org>
baycomepp
baycomusb
hf

Manuel Garcia <mannyto@gmail.com>
crank

Yu Guanghui <ygh@debian.org>
sulu

Uwe Hermann <uwe@debian.org>
pixelize

Steffen Joeris <steffen.joeris@skolelinux.de>
gpsim-led
gpsim-logic

Daniel Kobras <kobras@debian.org>
dbmix
ygraph

Carlos Laviola <claviola@debian.org>
lazarus

Ola Lundqvist <opal@debian.org>
ledcontrol
xt

Camm Maguire <camm@enhanced.com>
perspic

Christoph Martin <christoph.martin@uni-mainz.de>
gtalk

Hamish Moffatt <hamish@debian.org>
baycomepp (U)
baycomusb (U)
hf (U)

Jose M. Moya <josem@die.upm.es>
kmd

Mazen Neifer <mazen@freepascal.org>
lazarus (U)

Patrick Ouellette <pouelle@debian.org>
baycomepp (U)
baycomusb (U)
hf (U)

Jaime Robles <jaime@debian.org>
baycomepp (U)
baycomusb (U)
hf (U)

Josip Rodin <joy-packages@debian.org>
gtkpool

Ryan Schultz <schultz.ryan@gmail.com>
psemu-input-padjoy
psemu-sound-peops
psemu-video-x11

Paul Slootman <paul@debian.org>
linpopup

Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk>
python-visual

Riccardo Stagni <unriccio@email.it>
gcx

Lucas Wall <lwall@debian.org>
pilrc

Torsten Werner <twerner@debian.org>
lazarus (U)
python-visual (U)


Cheers,
--
.'`.
: :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code.
`. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
`- our own. Resistance is futile.

On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 07:06:26PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Jon Bernard <jbernard@debian.org>
> e16menuedit
> => we don’t ship E16 anymore

packages.debian.org says otherwise.

--
James
GPG Key: 1024D/61326D40 2003-09-02 James Vega <jamessan@debian.org>

Josselin Mouette wrote:

<snip>
Debian Games Team <pkg-games-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>
lmemory
=> gcompris ?



I'll take a look at this one.


<snip>
Debian QA Group <packages@qa.debian.org>
gnome-libs
gtkfontsel
gtkglarea
imlib
netdude
sqlrelay
stegdetect

=> QA-maintained packages should be removed as soon as they don’t have
remaining rdeps


I will look at this as well since I'm on an RM:/proposed RM kick. I
assume this is more of a Lenny+1 goal?


Thanks,

Barry deFreese


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

Barry deFreese wrote:

OK, I have looked at several of these and man what a mess.

<snip>
Debian QA Group <packages@qa.debian.org>
gnome-libs

Orphaned but obviously tons of r(b)depends.

gtkfontsel
Orphaned but a fairly significant popcon. I can't find new upstream
source. Could probably be ported or RM:d.



gtkglarea
Orphaned and I can't find any upstream source yet but again lots of
r(b)depends.

imlib

Orphaned and LOTS of r(b)depends.

netdude
ITA'd. There is a new upstream available. I've pinged the ITAer to see
if the new upstream is GTK 2.0.

sqlrelay
Some of the binaries have decent popcons. We could probably either port
sqlrelay-config-gtk or just remove that binary for now.

stegdetect


RM: filed.


Is this really feasible? How many people are going to work on dead
packages? Or if we RM: the lot of them, how many users are we pissing off?


Thanks,

Barry deFreese


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

On Friday 05 December 2008 13:06, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Paul Mangan <claws@thewildbeast.co.uk>
> * *sylpheed-gtk1 (U)
...
>
> Ricardo Mones <mones@debian.org>
> * *sylpheed-gtk1
> *=> sylpheed-claws

sylpheed-gtk1 should be replaced by sylpheed. sylpheed-claws (now claws-mail)
is a fork.

Scott K


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

On 05/12/2008, at 21.11, Barry deFreese wrote:




Is this really feasible? How many people are going to work on dead
packages? Or if we RM: the lot of them, how many users are we
pissing off?





There are several useful science programs that still make use of GTK+
1.2, one is a very useful chemistry program, GAMGI, which is in the
new queue and on its way into unstable. The other is coot, a
widespread application for macromolecular crystallography.


Please don't remove GTK+ 1.2. There are still upstream authors,
especially in science who use GTK+ 1.2 and who don't bother revising
their programs from the wisdom: if it ain't broke don't fix it.


Cheers,
Morten



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

Josselin Mouette <joss@debian.org> writes:

> Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org>
> gtimer
> => hamster-applet, gnotime

My intention is to request removal of gtimer when there's a consensus that
GTK+ 1.2 is going away. The package has been RFA for years without a
nibble, I haven't used it personally in about five years, and I'm only
still maintaining it because I know a few people use it and it hasn't
required much effort to keep it mostly up to snuff. But the resources to
port it to a new version of GTK just aren't there, and it's dead upstream.

If it's now time to get rid of GTK+ 1.2, I can file a removal request for
it.

--
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

Russ Allbery wrote:
> Josselin Mouette <joss@debian.org> writes:
>
>> Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org>
>> gtimer
>> => hamster-applet, gnotime
>
> My intention is to request removal of gtimer when there's a consensus that
> GTK+ 1.2 is going away. The package has been RFA for years without a
> nibble, I haven't used it personally in about five years, and I'm only
> still maintaining it because I know a few people use it and it hasn't
> required much effort to keep it mostly up to snuff. But the resources to
> port it to a new version of GTK just aren't there, and it's dead upstream.
>
> If it's now time to get rid of GTK+ 1.2, I can file a removal request for
> it.

I think there is a consensus to get rid of GTK+ 1.2, but we didn't
manage to do it for Lenny, although we made some progress. Personally I
would like to get rid of it before Squeeze preferably with ported
applications or alternatives.

Cheers

Luk


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 07:06:26PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:

> Mark Brown <broonie@debian.org>
> powertweak
> => Is that still relevant with modern power management policies?

It's nothing to do with power management. I'd rather let it stay until
lenny is released, though if it were the only thing keeping GTK 1.2 in
it should go.

--
"You grabbed my hand and we fell into it, like a daydream - or a fever."


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

Hi,

On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 10:41:52PM +0100, Morten Kjeldgaard wrote:
>
> On 05/12/2008, at 21.11, Barry deFreese wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Is this really feasible? How many people are going to work on dead
>> packages? Or if we RM: the lot of them, how many users are we pissing
>> off?
>
> There are several useful science programs that still make use of GTK+
> 1.2, one is a very useful chemistry program, GAMGI, which is in the new
> queue and on its way into unstable.

AFAICT, gamgi is using GTK-2.0.

Michael


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org