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Old 12-06-2008, 01:20 PM
Barry deFreese
 
Default Packages still depending on GTK+ 1.2

Morten Kjeldgaard wrote:

<snip>
For whom is the Debian distribution? Is it created to satisfy the
needs of only the packagers and developers? If so, it is absolutely
logical to get rid of everything a couple of years past expiry date.


<snip>
So I am not advocating keeping every bit of software around. In this
discussion, I am advocating keeping GTK+ 1.2 around. The LIBRARIES. I
am not opposed to weeding out out-dated applications that make use of
it, if reasonable replacements are available.


But Libraries represent a resource for _others_ than packagers and
developers.


Cheers,
Morten


Morten,

I understand where you are coming from but it also becomes an issue of
resources. We already have a buttload of orphaned and/or QA maintained
packages. If we keep every version of every library out there how do we
support it? Look at libnet0. It's orphaned but has several depends
while libnet1 exists. Who's taking care of those users? Should we keep
every version of glibc in the archive? How about all the gnome1 stuff?


BTW, I don't care if GTK+ 1.2 stays or goes but I do care about
unmaintained stuff hanging around.


Just my worthless $.02

Barry deFreese


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Old 12-06-2008, 01:28 PM
Michael Banck
 
Default Packages still depending on GTK+ 1.2

On Sat, Dec 06, 2008 at 09:20:31AM -0500, Barry deFreese wrote:
> Morten Kjeldgaard wrote:
>> So I am not advocating keeping every bit of software around.
> If we keep every version of every library out there how do we support
> it?

Morten did not say that.


Michael


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Old 12-06-2008, 01:47 PM
Barry deFreese
 
Default Packages still depending on GTK+ 1.2

Michael Banck wrote:

On Sat, Dec 06, 2008 at 09:20:31AM -0500, Barry deFreese wrote:


Morten Kjeldgaard wrote:


So I am not advocating keeping every bit of software around.


If we keep every version of every library out there how do we support
it?



Morten did not say that.


Michael

Obviously I was exaggerating purposely.

Barry


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Old 12-06-2008, 01:59 PM
"Devid Antonio Filoni"
 
Default Packages still depending on GTK+ 1.2

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 7:06 PM, Josselin Mouette <joss@debian.org> wrote:
> Devid Filoni <d.filoni@techemail.com>
> dillo
> => there is a new upstream based on FLTK
I'm working on fltk2 package in order to update dillo to the new
upstream version that requires it.

Devid Antonio Filoni


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Old 12-06-2008, 05:08 PM
Josselin Mouette
 
Default Packages still depending on GTK+ 1.2

Le vendredi 05 décembre 2008 à 21:43 -0600, Raphael Geissert a écrit :
> > Alain Schroeder <alain@debian.org>
> > gsnes9x
> > => visualboyadvance ?
>
> C'mon, there are at least 15 years between the two consoles.
> And nope, visualboyadvance doesn't replace gsnes9x, although the latter is just
> a front-end.

Gah, I thought it was able to handle SNES ROMs. The correct answer would
probably be zsnes, although it only works on i386.

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Old 12-06-2008, 05:11 PM
Josselin Mouette
 
Default Packages still depending on GTK+ 1.2

Le samedi 06 décembre 2008 à 14:27 +0100, Morten Kjeldgaard a écrit :
> GTK+ 1.2 is not just any old library. It was the first truly open and
> free graphics toolkit of excellent quality, an alternative to Motif
> and the ugly Xaw widget sets, and was eagerly embraced by everyone.
> This is a central and historic piece of software.

If you agree to take over upstream maintenance - including security
maintenance in imlib and gdk-imlib, maybe we could keep it around, yeah.

--
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: :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code.
`. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
`- our own. Resistance is futile.
 
Old 12-06-2008, 05:46 PM
Morten Kjeldgaard
 
Default Packages still depending on GTK+ 1.2

On 06/12/2008, at 15.47, Barry deFreese wrote:


Obviously I was exaggerating purposely.


Yes, but, you know, exaggerating the position of others in a forum
like this is not really constructive. In fact, it signals that you've
run out of arguments.


I raised a -- I think -- valid concern that certain libraries can't
just be removed just because they're "old" or not used anymore by most
Debian apps, because they may still be useful to people who are not
Debian Developers or package maintainers. The only argument I've read
from various contributors to the thread is: "we can't just keep every
ancient bit of software that was once shipped." Again, ridiculing my
position doesn't justify yours.


However, earlier you said:

BTW, I don't care if GTK+ 1.2 stays or goes but I do care about
unmaintained stuff hanging around.



Now that is a true concern, but OTOH it is a tangible problem that
could be solved. So, if this is the case, why not try to solve the
problem of maintenance for the software in question? I am speaking for
GTK+ 1.2, I'll let others speak for software they care for. Btw, I
can't find GTK+ 1.2 on the Orphaned list.


Cheers,
Morten


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Old 12-06-2008, 06:12 PM
Barry deFreese
 
Default Packages still depending on GTK+ 1.2

Morten Kjeldgaard wrote:


On 06/12/2008, at 15.47, Barry deFreese wrote:


Obviously I was exaggerating purposely.


Yes, but, you know, exaggerating the position of others in a forum
like this is not really constructive. In fact, it signals that you've
run out of arguments.



Give me a break.

I raised a -- I think -- valid concern that certain libraries can't
just be removed just because they're "old" or not used anymore by most
Debian apps, because they may still be useful to people who are not
Debian Developers or package maintainers. The only argument I've read
from various contributors to the thread is: "we can't just keep every
ancient bit of software that was once shipped." Again, ridiculing my
position doesn't justify yours.


No one is ridiculing you to my knowledge, that certainly isn't my
intent. This kind of issue goes on constantly. It happened with
wxwidgets, the gnome1 stuff, as I mentioned libnet0, and even to a
smaller degree just within the games team with clanlib. We were holding
on to an old version of clanlib for one game.



However, earlier you said:

BTW, I don't care if GTK+ 1.2 stays or goes but I do care about
unmaintained stuff hanging around.



Now that is a true concern, but OTOH it is a tangible problem that
could be solved. So, if this is the case, why not try to solve the
problem of maintenance for the software in question? I am speaking for
GTK+ 1.2, I'll let others speak for software they care for. Btw, I
can't find GTK+ 1.2 on the Orphaned list.


Cheers,
Morten
I wasn't talking about GTK+ 1.2 specifically. I'm talking about many of
it's r(b)depends such as imlib, gnome-libs, etc in case GTK goes. Say a
major security bug is found withing GTK. Now you have at least two
dependent packages with lots of depends themselves that are effected but
are unmaintained.


Anyway, I'll shut up now as I said, I don't care if it stays or goes.

Barry


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Old 12-06-2008, 06:27 PM
Julien BLACHE
 
Default Packages still depending on GTK+ 1.2

Josselin Mouette <joss@debian.org> wrote:

>> And nope, visualboyadvance doesn't replace gsnes9x, although the latter is just
>> a front-end.
>
> Gah, I thought it was able to handle SNES ROMs. The correct answer would
> probably be zsnes, although it only works on i386.

You missed the word "frontend" in the above. gsnes9x is a simple
frontend for snes9x-x.

JB.

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Old 12-06-2008, 06:42 PM
Klaus Ethgen
 
Default Packages still depending on GTK+ 1.2

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Hash: SHA1

You forgot xmms. It is still heavily used and there are no alternative
for it. (It is just such a application as xv - very old but there are no
alternative that completely replace it (in all facets).)

Regards
Klaus
- --
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pub 2048R/D1A4EDE5 2000-02-26 Klaus Ethgen <Klaus@Ethgen.de>
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