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Old 12-05-2008, 11:50 PM
Morten Kjeldgaard
 
Default Packages still depending on GTK+ 1.2

On 06/12/2008, at 00.09, Michael Banck wrote:


There are several useful science programs that still make use of GTK+
1.2, one is a very useful chemistry program, GAMGI, which is in the
new

queue and on its way into unstable.


AFAICT, gamgi is using GTK-2.0.


Yes you are right, gamgi uses GTK-2.0 as of March this year. I was
quoting from (volatile, apparently) memory.


However, I maintain my objection. One thing is removing out-of-date
applications, another is to remove a library which may well be used by
users to compile and link their local applications. Even though there
are no apps in Debian linking to GTK+ 1.2 the library should really
remain in the archives.


Cheers,
Morten


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Old 12-06-2008, 02:18 AM
Josselin Mouette
 
Default Packages still depending on GTK+ 1.2

Le vendredi 05 décembre 2008 Ã* 13:19 -0500, James Vega a écrit :
> On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 07:06:26PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > Jon Bernard <jbernard@debian.org>
> > e16menuedit
> > => we don’t ship E16 anymore
>
> packages.debian.org says otherwise.

Ah right, it was renamed. Anyway, there is e16menuedit2 which uses GTK+
2.x.

Thanks,
--
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`. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
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Old 12-06-2008, 02:23 AM
Josselin Mouette
 
Default Packages still depending on GTK+ 1.2

Le vendredi 05 décembre 2008 à 15:11 -0500, Barry deFreese a écrit :
> >> gtkfontsel
> Orphaned but a fairly significant popcon. I can't find new upstream
> source. Could probably be ported or RM:d.

The notion of X fonts is simply losing its meaning now that most if not
all toolkits are using Xft2. IIUC their support will be dropped from the
X server some time in the future.

> >> imlib
> Orphaned and LOTS of r(b)depends.

I wonder how many exploitable security issues there are in this one.

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: :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code.
`. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
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Old 12-06-2008, 02:25 AM
Josselin Mouette
 
Default Packages still depending on GTK+ 1.2

Le vendredi 05 décembre 2008 à 22:49 +0000, Mark Brown a écrit :
> On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 07:06:26PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>
> > Mark Brown <broonie@debian.org>
> > powertweak
> > => Is that still relevant with modern power management policies?
>
> It's nothing to do with power management. I'd rather let it stay until
> lenny is released, though if it were the only thing keeping GTK 1.2 in
> it should go.

Does it even work? The description says it needs a /dev/cpu/ tree.

--
.'`.
: :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code.
`. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
`- our own. Resistance is futile.
 
Old 12-06-2008, 02:31 AM
Raphael Geissert
 
Default Packages still depending on GTK+ 1.2

Barry deFreese wrote:
[...]
>>> stegdetect
>>>
> RM: filed.

Why isn't just the xsetg package dropped? stegdetect is a CLI app; only xsteg
uses GTK+

Cheers,
/me who has stegdetect installed and keeps it around to time by time try to find
something that just isn't there



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Old 12-06-2008, 02:34 AM
Barry deFreese
 
Default Packages still depending on GTK+ 1.2

Raphael Geissert wrote:

Barry deFreese wrote:
[...]


stegdetect



RM: filed.



Why isn't just the xsetg package dropped? stegdetect is a CLI app; only xsteg
uses GTK+

Cheers,
/me who has stegdetect installed and keeps it around to time by time try to find
something that just isn't there


Feel free to adopt it then.

Barry deFreese


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Old 12-06-2008, 02:43 AM
Raphael Geissert
 
Default Packages still depending on GTK+ 1.2

Josselin Mouette wrote:
[...]
> Joerg Jaspert <joerg@debian.org>
> xbindkeys-config
> => I think we have quite a number of key->event managers already

And is prone to buffer overflow attacks (only reported one atm, though).

>
> Josip Rodin <joy-packages@debian.org>
[...]
> gentoo

The maint docs will need an update if gentoo is removed (yay! Debian will remove
its competition from the archive

>
> Alain Schroeder <alain@debian.org>
> gsnes9x
> => visualboyadvance ?

C'mon, there are at least 15 years between the two consoles.
And nope, visualboyadvance doesn't replace gsnes9x, although the latter is just
a front-end.

>
> Christoph Martin <christoph.martin@uni-mainz.de>
> gtalk

w00t, didn't know Google's IM was already ported (JK).

P.S. thanks for working on it, never really found time to go through that list
(/me wanted to just RM libgtk and its rdeps).

Cheers,
Raphael Geissert



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Old 12-06-2008, 08:01 AM
Mike Hommey
 
Default Packages still depending on GTK+ 1.2

On Sat, Dec 06, 2008 at 01:50:44AM +0100, Morten Kjeldgaard wrote:
>
> On 06/12/2008, at 00.09, Michael Banck wrote:
>
>>> There are several useful science programs that still make use of GTK+
>>> 1.2, one is a very useful chemistry program, GAMGI, which is in the
>>> new
>>> queue and on its way into unstable.
>>
>> AFAICT, gamgi is using GTK-2.0.
>
> Yes you are right, gamgi uses GTK-2.0 as of March this year. I was
> quoting from (volatile, apparently) memory.
>
> However, I maintain my objection. One thing is removing out-of-date
> applications, another is to remove a library which may well be used by
> users to compile and link their local applications. Even though there
> are no apps in Debian linking to GTK+ 1.2 the library should really
> remain in the archives.

With such arguments, we would still ship every single bit that was
shipped some day. This is going nowhere.

Moreover, removing a package from the archive doesn't mean it will
disappear at apt-get dist-upgrade time, not that it will disappear from
archive.debian.org.

Mike


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Old 12-06-2008, 08:11 AM
Andreas Tille
 
Default Packages still depending on GTK+ 1.2

On Fri, 5 Dec 2008, Josselin Mouette wrote:


Andreas Tille <tille@debian.org>
libgtkimreg
paul
=> Yay, an imaging library and an image viewer


As I said in a similar thread: These two packages should not block a
GTK 1.2 removal but as long as the library is there they might remain.
Just found a "paul fan mail" in my inbox. I confirm that paul is not
maintained upstream (me) any more. It has features I do not know from
any other viewer (that's why I started coding it 10 years ago) but
it is not important enough to keep GTK 1.2just for this purpose.

Kind regards

Andreas.

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Old 12-06-2008, 12:27 PM
Morten Kjeldgaard
 
Default Packages still depending on GTK+ 1.2

On 06/12/2008, at 10.01, Mike Hommey wrote:


With such arguments, we would still ship every single bit that was
shipped some day. This is going nowhere.


I don't recall advocating that every single bit that was shipped some
day should be kept around. You are twisting my words and distorting
my view into something obviously absurd.



Moreover, removing a package from the archive doesn't mean it will
disappear at apt-get dist-upgrade time, not that it will disappear
from

archive.debian.org.



I've had this discussion several times before with people, but it
doesn't hurt to repeat.


For whom is the Debian distribution? Is it created to satisfy the
needs of only the packagers and developers? If so, it is absolutely
logical to get rid of everything a couple of years past expiry date.


To be clear, we are not talking about applications for which a
replacement -- often better -- exists. We are talking about libraries.
In my opinion, Debian is also for programmers who don't package their
software for the distribution, but distribute it themselves or don't
distribute it at all.


I mentioned science programs, and these are typical examples where the
authors are not programmers who are geekily fascinated with every new
incarnation of a graphics toolkit, but are more interested in
developing the methods, applicability and scope of their own
algorithms. If the menu system and dialogue boxes work, why spend more
time on it?


You may disagree with the above reasoning, but it is a fact of life of
many Debian users, and it is arrogant to disregard.


GTK+ 1.2 is not just any old library. It was the first truly open and
free graphics toolkit of excellent quality, an alternative to Motif
and the ugly Xaw widget sets, and was eagerly embraced by everyone.
This is a central and historic piece of software.


So I am not advocating keeping every bit of software around. In this
discussion, I am advocating keeping GTK+ 1.2 around. The LIBRARIES. I
am not opposed to weeding out out-dated applications that make use of
it, if reasonable replacements are available.


But Libraries represent a resource for _others_ than packagers and
developers.


Cheers,
Morten


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