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Old 12-02-2008, 07:59 PM
Drake Wilson
 
Default volunteers wanted for driving/finalizing a DEP on debian/copyright format

Quoth Miriam Ruiz <miriam@debian.org>, on 2008-12-02 21:51:04 +0100:
> Well, not exactly, you cannot easily see the copyright file before
> installing the package, can you?

p.d.o appears to permit viewing copyright files of packages currently
in the archive. As an example:

http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/g/gnome-games/gnome-games_2.22.3-3/gnome-games.copyright

> Miry

---> Drake Wilson


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Old 12-02-2008, 08:07 PM
James Vega
 
Default volunteers wanted for driving/finalizing a DEP on debian/copyright format

On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 09:51:04PM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> 2008/12/2 Stefano Zacchiroli <zack@debian.org>:
> > [ M-F-T set to -devel ]
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 07:30:54PM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> >> We should somehow tag those conflictive licenses with debtags, so that
> >> users can filter out the ones they don't wont easily. I don't object
> >
> > Except that debtags are right now for binary packages, whereas
> > copyright is for source packages.
> >
> > Moreover, copyright is something already coded (and correctly "fixed")
> > in debian/copyright.
> >
> > The solution to your problem already exists (actually, it has been
> > *designed* for that): http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat
> > , it "just" needs someone with the energy of finalizing the proposal
> > (most likely via a DEP), so that is stops being an ever changing wiki
> > page.
>
> Well, not exactly, you cannot easily see the copyright file before
> installing the package, can you?

It's linked from the packages.d.o and PTS page for the package.

--
James
GPG Key: 1024D/61326D40 2003-09-02 James Vega <jamessan@debian.org>
 
Old 12-03-2008, 07:00 AM
Stefano Zacchiroli
 
Default volunteers wanted for driving/finalizing a DEP on debian/copyright format

On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 07:16:44PM -0600, Raphael Geissert wrote:
> > Except that debtags are right now for binary packages, whereas
> > copyright is for source packages.
>
> Err, not quite right:
>
> Policy 4.5:
> > Every package must be accompanied by a verbatim copy of its copyright and
> > distribution license in the file */usr/share/doc/package/copyright*[...]
>
> Policy 12.5:

You are totally overlooking the reality of copyright files.

Yes, policy states that each binary package comes with a license, but
I believe you know that maintainers write exactly one copyright file
per *source* package which is then copied verbatim in each binary
generated by that source.

The reason is really simple: licenses and copyrights apply to source
files, which then get blended together (via linking usually, but can
be a lot of other processes) into binary packages.

There is no fully general and sane way to distribute copyright /
licensing information to binary files, and hence packages.

Cheers.

--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c' ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...........| ..: |.... Je dis tu tous ceux que j'aime
 
Old 12-03-2008, 10:49 AM
Noah Slater
 
Default volunteers wanted for driving/finalizing a DEP on debian/copyright format

Hey,

On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 12:25:20PM +0100, Simon Josefsson wrote:
> Stefano Zacchiroli <zack@debian.org> writes:
>
> > The solution to your problem already exists (actually, it has been
> > *designed* for that): http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat
> > , it "just" needs someone with the energy of finalizing the proposal
> > (most likely via a DEP), so that is stops being an ever changing wiki
> > page.
>
> This seems like an excellent idea, and seems in line with the comment at the
> top of the current wiki page too. I volunteer to help on this. Maybe we can
> set up a vc repository to start working on the DEP? The wiki page can be used
> as a starting point, assuming the license is acceptable.

As one of the primary contributers to the copyright proposal I would obviously
like to be involved in its ratification. I am guessing some of the other main
contributers would like to be involved too.

To get this started we need a mailing list and a repository, then we can place a
notice on the wiki directing people to the mailing list and make the wiki page
immutable so that there is no confusion.

--
Noah Slater, http://tumbolia.org/nslater


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Old 12-03-2008, 11:05 AM
Stefano Zacchiroli
 
Default volunteers wanted for driving/finalizing a DEP on debian/copyright format

On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 11:49:25AM +0000, Noah Slater wrote:
> To get this started we need a mailing list and a repository, then we
> can place a notice on the wiki directing people to the mailing list
> and make the wiki page immutable so that there is no confusion.

Come on, do you really need all this for just the DEP drivers?

The idea behind DEPs is to have a small (2-3 typically) number of
drivers, which can easily discuss among them via private mail, just
for the sake of shaping the work. Then, for the various intermediate
steps (draft, ...) the discussion will be public anyhow, and it is
assumed to take part on the most appropriate mailing list (I'd say
-devel for this particular DEP, in other cases can be -project).

As a repository if we want we have the DEP repository which can be
used by that, but you are free also to use the wiki page (maybe a new,
temporarily private one) or a personal repo of yours.

I don't think we really need to create a new infrastructure.

Cheers.

--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c' ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...........| ..: |.... Je dis tu tous ceux que j'aime
 
Old 12-03-2008, 11:18 AM
Enrico Zini
 
Default volunteers wanted for driving/finalizing a DEP on debian/copyright format

On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 09:46:29PM +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 07:30:54PM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> > We should somehow tag those conflictive licenses with debtags, so that
> > users can filter out the ones they don't wont easily. I don't object
[...]
> Except that debtags are right now for binary packages, whereas
> copyright is for source packages.

That is easy(ish) to solve: just copy the information from the source to
all the binary packages. It may not always be correct (a game can have
the program package containing mostly GPLv3 and the game data package
containing mostly CC-By-SA), but it could be correct enough (both the
game and game data will have both GPLv3 and CC-By-SA tags).

> Moreover, copyright is something already coded (and correctly "fixed")
> in debian/copyright.
>
> The solution to your problem already exists (actually, it has been
> *designed* for that): http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat
> , it "just" needs someone with the energy of finalizing the proposal
> (most likely via a DEP), so that is stops being an ever changing wiki
> page.

The wish for encoding licenses in debtags categories periodically shows
up, so I collected some pointers to old discussions in the FAQ:

http://debtags.alioth.debian.org/faq.html#any-reason-why-there-are-no-license-tags-in-debtags

My current plan is to wait until http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat
happens and see if I can automatically derive a facet out of those
information.


Ciao,

Enrico

--
GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini <enrico@debian.org>
 
Old 12-03-2008, 11:26 AM
Noah Slater
 
Default volunteers wanted for driving/finalizing a DEP on debian/copyright format

On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 01:05:56PM +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 11:49:25AM +0000, Noah Slater wrote:
> > To get this started we need a mailing list and a repository, then we
> > can place a notice on the wiki directing people to the mailing list
> > and make the wiki page immutable so that there is no confusion.
>
> Come on, do you really need all this for just the DEP drivers?
>
> The idea behind DEPs is to have a small (2-3 typically) number of drivers,
> which can easily discuss among them via private mail, just for the sake of
> shaping the work. Then, for the various intermediate steps (draft, ...) the
> discussion will be public anyhow, and it is assumed to take part on the most
> appropriate mailing list (I'd say -devel for this particular DEP, in other
> cases can be -project).

Oh, okay, that makes sense.

How should we go about collecting to the contributers? Should I post a note to
the wiki (alerting the subscribers) about this, and if so, where to direct
people for collaboration?

> As a repository if we want we have the DEP repository which can be used by
> that, but you are free also to use the wiki page (maybe a new, temporarily
> private one) or a personal repo of yours.

The existing DEP repository should be fine.

--
Noah Slater, http://tumbolia.org/nslater


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Old 12-03-2008, 11:45 AM
Stefano Zacchiroli
 
Default volunteers wanted for driving/finalizing a DEP on debian/copyright format

On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 12:18:35PM +0000, Enrico Zini wrote:
> The wish for encoding licenses in debtags categories periodically shows
> up, so I collected some pointers to old discussions in the FAQ:
>
> http://debtags.alioth.debian.org/faq.html#any-reason-why-there-are-no-license-tags-in-debtags
>
> My current plan is to wait until http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat
> happens and see if I can automatically derive a facet out of those
> information.

That totally makes sense, I agree it would be the best final outcome.
That way we will have the information encoded in the suitable place,
yet we will provide different ways of accessing it.

Cheers.

--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c' ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...........| ..: |.... Je dis tu tous ceux que j'aime
 
Old 12-03-2008, 11:50 AM
Stefano Zacchiroli
 
Default volunteers wanted for driving/finalizing a DEP on debian/copyright format

On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 12:26:03PM +0000, Noah Slater wrote:
> How should we go about collecting to the contributers? Should I post
> a note to the wiki (alerting the subscribers) about this, and if so,
> where to direct people for collaboration?

It is up to you. From a management point of view, I don't think you
should look for many people as the drivers. We already have two people
in this thread which volunteered for that (you are one of the two). I
suggest you start together to shape the first draft and see how to
make the work fit in the DEP process (remember that Sam proposed the
copyright stuff before we had DEPs).

Also, you should get your DEP number (see DEP0 for info).

Then, when you have a draft, you post it to -devel looking for
consensus. The main role of the drivers is keep the ball rolling,
trying to reach consensus.

> > As a repository if we want we have the DEP repository which can be used by
> > that, but you are free also to use the wiki page (maybe a new, temporarily
> > private one) or a personal repo of yours.
>
> The existing DEP repository should be fine.

OK, I must admit I don't remember the details of how to access it. I
Cc: Adeodato Simo, which did most of the work on the technical side,
he can provide info (but I'm sure you can find out by yourself, IIRC
it is the "dep" alioth project, you can require to be added to it as
usual).

Cheers.

--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c' ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...........| ..: |.... Je dis tu tous ceux que j'aime
 
Old 12-03-2008, 11:54 AM
Noah Slater
 
Default volunteers wanted for driving/finalizing a DEP on debian/copyright format

On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 12:57:33PM +0100, Simon Josefsson wrote:
> > As one of the primary contributers to the copyright proposal I would
> > obviously like to be involved in its ratification. I am guessing some of the
> > other main contributers would like to be involved too.
>
> Great, then maybe finding volunteers isn't actually a problem, as the subject
> line implied.

The current contributers are pretty active, which is great.

> Good idea. Can't debian-legal be used for discussion though? Alternatively,
> if a list is set up to discuss any DEP proposals. A list to discuss just the
> copyright file format specifications seems somewhat overkill. But maybe I'm
> wrong and the format will be discussed forever and ever.

Well, as is always the case with these things, without any direction this
proposal could be discussed until the heat death of the Universe and in fact we
have already witnessed the same things come up time and time again. Moving this
to a more formal channel and spending a bit of time getting some consensus
before wrapping it up is absolutely the right move.

--
Noah Slater, http://tumbolia.org/nslater


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