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-   -   volunteers wanted for driving/finalizing a DEP on debian/copyright format (http://www.linux-archive.org/debian-development/204338-volunteers-wanted-driving-finalizing-dep-debian-copyright-format.html)

"Miriam Ruiz" 12-02-2008 07:51 PM

volunteers wanted for driving/finalizing a DEP on debian/copyright format
 
2008/12/2 Stefano Zacchiroli <zack@debian.org>:
> [ M-F-T set to -devel ]
>
> On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 07:30:54PM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
>> We should somehow tag those conflictive licenses with debtags, so that
>> users can filter out the ones they don't wont easily. I don't object
>
> Except that debtags are right now for binary packages, whereas
> copyright is for source packages.
>
> Moreover, copyright is something already coded (and correctly "fixed")
> in debian/copyright.
>
> The solution to your problem already exists (actually, it has been
> *designed* for that): http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat
> , it "just" needs someone with the energy of finalizing the proposal
> (most likely via a DEP), so that is stops being an ever changing wiki
> page.

Well, not exactly, you cannot easily see the copyright file before
installing the package, can you?

Greetings,
Miry


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"Miriam Ruiz" 12-02-2008 08:36 PM

volunteers wanted for driving/finalizing a DEP on debian/copyright format
 
2008/12/2 Drake Wilson <drake@begriffli.ch>:
> Quoth Miriam Ruiz <miriam@debian.org>, on 2008-12-02 21:51:04 +0100:
>> Well, not exactly, you cannot easily see the copyright file before
>> installing the package, can you?
>
> p.d.o appears to permit viewing copyright files of packages currently
> in the archive. As an example:

I know. I really don't want to start a flame on this, but you have to
be online for that, which is not always true, and also, it's not
really easy to add automatic filtering support to any tools based on
that.

Thanks anyway :)

Greetings,
Miry


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Karl Goetz 12-02-2008 09:31 PM

volunteers wanted for driving/finalizing a DEP on debian/copyright format
 
On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 22:36:15 +0100
"Miriam Ruiz" <miriam@debian.org> wrote:

> 2008/12/2 Drake Wilson <drake@begriffli.ch>:
> > Quoth Miriam Ruiz <miriam@debian.org>, on 2008-12-02 21:51:04 +0100:
> >> Well, not exactly, you cannot easily see the copyright file before
> >> installing the package, can you?
> >
> > p.d.o appears to permit viewing copyright files of packages
> > currently in the archive. As an example:
>
> I know. I really don't want to start a flame on this, but you have to
> be online for that, which is not always true, and also, it's not
> really easy to add automatic filtering support to any tools based on
> that.

Would something like apt-listbugs work? I know it doesnt address the
offline issue, but seems to fit as a concept for the rest of the
problem.
kk

>
> Thanks anyway :)
>
> Greetings,
> Miry
>
>


--
Karl Goetz, (Kamping_Kaiser / VK5FOSS)
Debian user / gNewSense contributor
http://www.kgoetz.id.au
No, I won't join your social networking group


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"Miriam Ruiz" 12-02-2008 09:44 PM

volunteers wanted for driving/finalizing a DEP on debian/copyright format
 
2008/12/2 Karl Goetz <karl@kgoetz.id.au>:

> Would something like apt-listbugs work? I know it doesnt address the
> offline issue, but seems to fit as a concept for the rest of the
> problem.

Yep, that should be enough, as long as there is a way (with some
possible development in the future) for a user to say: don't install
me anything AGPL nor GFDL and the system automatically knows which
packages are out. I planned to implement it with debtags, but other
possible solutions are of course welcome, if they are better :)

Greetings,
Miry


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Gunnar Wolf 12-02-2008 10:57 PM

volunteers wanted for driving/finalizing a DEP on debian/copyright format
 
Miriam Ruiz dijo [Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 09:51:04PM +0100]:
> > The solution to your problem already exists (actually, it has been
> > *designed* for that): http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat
> > , it "just" needs someone with the energy of finalizing the proposal
> > (most likely via a DEP), so that is stops being an ever changing wiki
> > page.
>
> Well, not exactly, you cannot easily see the copyright file before
> installing the package, can you?

You could, if we set a service to do it ;-) Besides, this tool could
group you the packages by license, or do any nice amount of
transformations with it, if a sizable portion of the archive used this
proposal.

--
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PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23
Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF


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Raphael Geissert 12-03-2008 12:12 AM

volunteers wanted for driving/finalizing a DEP on debian/copyright format
 
Miriam Ruiz wrote:

> 2008/12/2 Karl Goetz <karl@kgoetz.id.au>:
>
>> Would something like apt-listbugs work? I know it doesnt address the
>> offline issue, but seems to fit as a concept for the rest of the
>> problem.
>
> Yep, that should be enough, as long as there is a way (with some
> possible development in the future) for a user to say: don't install
> me anything AGPL nor GFDL and the system automatically knows which
> packages are out. I planned to implement it with debtags, but other
> possible solutions are of course welcome, if they are better :)

That's a long-standing item on my Debian todo list, it would be great if you
could accomplish it.

>
> Greetings,
> Miry

Cheers,
Raphael Geissert



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Raphael Geissert 12-03-2008 12:16 AM

volunteers wanted for driving/finalizing a DEP on debian/copyright format
 
Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
[...]
> Except that debtags are right now for binary packages, whereas
> copyright is for source packages.

Err, not quite right:

Policy 4.5:
> Every package must be accompanied by a verbatim copy of its copyright and
> distribution license in the file */usr/share/doc/package/copyright*[...]

Policy 12.5:

> Every package must be accompanied by a verbatim copy of its copyright and
> distribution license in the file */usr/share/doc/package/copyright*.
[...]
> A copy of the file which will be installed in /usr/share/doc/package/copyright
> _should_ be in debian/copyright in the *source package*.

Cheers,
Raphael Geissert


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Simon Josefsson 12-03-2008 10:25 AM

volunteers wanted for driving/finalizing a DEP on debian/copyright format
 
Stefano Zacchiroli <zack@debian.org> writes:

> The solution to your problem already exists (actually, it has been
> *designed* for that): http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat
> , it "just" needs someone with the energy of finalizing the proposal
> (most likely via a DEP), so that is stops being an ever changing wiki
> page.

This seems like an excellent idea, and seems in line with the comment at
the top of the current wiki page too. I volunteer to help on this.
Maybe we can set up a vc repository to start working on the DEP? The
wiki page can be used as a starting point, assuming the license is
acceptable.

/Simon


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Simon Josefsson 12-03-2008 10:57 AM

volunteers wanted for driving/finalizing a DEP on debian/copyright format
 
Noah Slater <nslater@tumbolia.org> writes:

> Hey,
>
> On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 12:25:20PM +0100, Simon Josefsson wrote:
>> Stefano Zacchiroli <zack@debian.org> writes:
>>
>> > The solution to your problem already exists (actually, it has been
>> > *designed* for that): http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat
>> > , it "just" needs someone with the energy of finalizing the proposal
>> > (most likely via a DEP), so that is stops being an ever changing wiki
>> > page.
>>
>> This seems like an excellent idea, and seems in line with the comment at the
>> top of the current wiki page too. I volunteer to help on this. Maybe we can
>> set up a vc repository to start working on the DEP? The wiki page can be used
>> as a starting point, assuming the license is acceptable.
>
> As one of the primary contributers to the copyright proposal I would obviously
> like to be involved in its ratification. I am guessing some of the other main
> contributers would like to be involved too.

Great, then maybe finding volunteers isn't actually a problem, as the
subject line implied.

> To get this started we need a mailing list and a repository, then we
> can place a notice on the wiki directing people to the mailing list
> and make the wiki page immutable so that there is no confusion.

Good idea. Can't debian-legal be used for discussion though?
Alternatively, if a list is set up to discuss any DEP proposals. A list
to discuss just the copyright file format specifications seems somewhat
overkill. But maybe I'm wrong and the format will be discussed forever
and ever.

/Simon


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Manoj Srivastava 12-04-2008 07:41 AM

volunteers wanted for driving/finalizing a DEP on debian/copyright format
 
On Wed, Dec 03 2008, Noah Slater wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 10:52:39AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:

>> Why do you need a separate mailing list for a single proposal? Please
>> discuss this on debian-devel or debian-project, which are already perfectly
>> adequate lists for this.
>
> We have struggled enough with the proposal as it is. My fear is that
> discussing it on debian-devel will open it up to "fire-and-forget"
> criticism that lacks context of previous discussions, is poorly
> thought out, results in spiralling threads and contributes little to
> the effort. If there was some dedicated forum for discussing this,
> even if this was simply a DEP mailing list, I think it would encourage
> thoughtful and committed contributions from all involved.

Then you'll just have to go through another round of discussion
and debate before this proposal could be implemented, I
think. Something as intrusive as this proposal can't be just discussed
in special purpose mailing lists.

manoj
--
Let's just be friends and make no special effort to ever see each other
again.
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta@debian.org> <http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/>
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