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Old 11-30-2008, 03:04 AM
"Raphael Geissert"
 
Default Bug#341420: marked as done (code in exts/dbase is not DFSG-free)

2008/11/29 Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org>:
> Hi,
>
> On Sunday 30 November 2008 00:56, Raphael Geissert wrote:
>> > Closes: 341420
>> Do you mind at least contacting the maintainers?
>> I find your upload very impolite.
>
> Huh? We are in a permanent bugsquashing party, cause we want to release lenny.

Right, but it is a DFSG-freeness issue and those take time to
*properly* resolve.

> This is a RC bugs since three weeks, so I rather think the php-maintainers
> have been unpolite leaving it open so long...

If you or anybody else has a magic trick to reach every copyright
owner out there in a matter of a couple of days then please share it
with the rest of the mere mortals out there.

We already fixed another DFSG issue a month or so ago, all we needed
was some time to properly resolve the issue.

I'm concerned about the lack of licence information other than PHP's
on those files, but the cvs doesn't contain any reference to "the full
license text of the DBF package" as stated in the bug report.


My point is: I find it very impolite to just come and upload a package
without even trying to contact the maintainers as to coordinate the
changes, without further investigation, in a DFSG purist intolerant
position.

>
>
> regards,
> Holger
>


Regards,
--
Raphael Geissert - Debian Maintainer
www.debian.org - get.debian.net


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Old 11-30-2008, 09:26 AM
"Ondřej Surý"
 
Default Bug#341420: marked as done (code in exts/dbase is not DFSG-free)

2008/11/30 Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org>:
> Hi,
>
> On Sunday 30 November 2008 00:56, Raphael Geissert wrote:
>> > Closes: 341420
>> Do you mind at least contacting the maintainers?
>> I find your upload very impolite.
>
> Huh? We are in a permanent bugsquashing party, cause we want to release lenny.

So what? One email with "I am going to upload PHP5 to resolve #341420" would
really delay release. I don't find it impolite, I find it very rude.

> This is a RC bugs since three weeks, so I rather think the php-maintainers
> have been unpolite leaving it open so long...

Sorry, but this is really bad approach - attacking php maintainers when somebody
else made mistake of not communicating that he is going to upload.
This is basic
courtesy between DDs (at least it was in the old days). We are all only people
with real lives and sometimes the time is lacking, or we forgot about bugs
or whatever - but nothing of it could be excuse for doing NMU without
prior notice
- sending email is not that hard compared to preparing proper NMU.

Ondrej
--
Ondřej Surý <ondrej@sury.org>
 
Old 11-30-2008, 09:29 AM
Holger Levsen
 
Default Bug#341420: marked as done (code in exts/dbase is not DFSG-free)

Hi,

Cyril, thanks for your reply. (I'm not even sure I should send this one, as I
dont add much...)

On Sunday 30 November 2008 05:24, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> > > Huh? We are in a permanent bugsquashing party, cause we want to
> > > release lenny.
> Still, coordination and communication matter.

I fully agree.

> It sounds to me that just saying
> “ACK, no need to NMU, we're actively working on getting this fixed”
> after the severity got bumped would have done the job.

I think so too.

> > > This is a RC bugs since three weeks, so I rather think the
> > > php-maintainers have been unpolite leaving it open so long...
> Maybe Holger meant “without any reply”, but I can't speak for him.

Yup.

> Coordination and communication got lacking, no need to get so angry.

Amen.

On Sunday 30 November 2008 05:04, Raphael Geissert wrote:
> Right, but it is a DFSG-freeness issue and those take time to
> *properly* resolve.

That depends, sometimes removal of those bits doesnt hurt. Also, removing
those bits is usually better than removing the package.

Having an RC bug open without a reply for three weeks at this stage of the
release is just not acceptable.


regards,
Holger
 
Old 11-30-2008, 02:29 PM
Ben Hutchings
 
Default Bug#341420: marked as done (code in exts/dbase is not DFSG-free)

On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 05:56:39PM -0600, Raphael Geissert wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> [...]
> > Urgency: low
> > Maintainer: Debian PHP Maintainers <pkg-php-maint@lists.alioth.debian.org>
> > Changed-By: Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk>
> > Description:
> [...]
> > Closes: 341420
> > Changes:
> > php5 (5.2.6.dfsg.1-0.1) unstable; urgency=low
> > .
> > * Non-maintainer upload.
> > * Remove exts/dbase from orig tarball (Closes: #341420)
>
> Do you mind at least contacting the maintainers?
>
> I find your upload very impolite.

php5 had an RC bug open with an obvious fix available for 3 weeks. The
fix was to remove code that was not even being built, so it was
low-risk. Why exactly should I have hesitated to NMU?

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain. - Lily Tomlin
 
Old 11-30-2008, 11:44 PM
"Raphael Geissert"
 
Default Bug#341420: marked as done (code in exts/dbase is not DFSG-free)

Hi,

2008/11/30 Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org>:
[...]
> On Sunday 30 November 2008 05:04, Raphael Geissert wrote:
>> Right, but it is a DFSG-freeness issue and those take time to
>> *properly* resolve.
>
> That depends, sometimes removal of those bits doesnt hurt. Also, removing
> those bits is usually better than removing the package.

The package would not be removed, the issue would have been fixed
either by getting permission from the copyright holder, or by
*properly* removing the affected code.

By coordinating the removal of the code the following things could
have been done:
1.- Decide the proper naming of the uploaded package version
2.- Ensuring that the watch file mangles the Debian version and that
it calls a script designed to strip the code from the downloaded
tarball, so that there is no need to manually remove it from future
tarballs[1].
3.- Including patches for a couple of issues that were pending to be uploaded.

[1] The dbase extension has been removed by upstream for the 5.3.x
series, but the future releases of the 5.2.x will still include it.

>
> Having an RC bug open without a reply for three weeks at this stage of the
> release is just not acceptable.

The "offending code" can quickly be dated back to 9 years ago; and IMO
it is not about "getting it ready for the release:" it affects all
versions of the package.

>
>
> regards,
> Holger
>

Regards,
--
Raphael Geissert - Debian Maintainer
www.debian.org - get.debian.net


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Old 11-30-2008, 11:45 PM
"Raphael Geissert"
 
Default Bug#341420: marked as done (code in exts/dbase is not DFSG-free)

[I would appreciate if you respected the CoC]

2008/11/30 Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk>:
[...]
>
> php5 had an RC bug open with an obvious fix available for 3 weeks. The

What looks obvious to you may not be obvious to the others, please
refrain from making such statements.

> fix was to remove code that was not even being built, so it was
> low-risk. Why exactly should I have hesitated to NMU?

As already stated by Steve: because of devref 5.11.1, and because of
mere courtesy.

Also, the issue affects all versions of php from php3 to php5. So in
case you are interested in "fixing" the whole problem then deal with
the copies at archive.d.o, snapshot.d.n, and master.

>
> Ben.
>

Regards,
--
Raphael Geissert - Debian Maintainer
www.debian.org - get.debian.net


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Old 12-01-2008, 06:52 AM
Thomas Viehmann
 
Default Bug#341420: marked as done (code in exts/dbase is not DFSG-free)

Hi,

Raphael Geissert wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> [...]
>> Urgency: low
>> Maintainer: Debian PHP Maintainers <pkg-php-maint@lists.alioth.debian.org>
>> Changed-By: Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk>
>> Description:
> [...]
>> Closes: 341420
>> Changes:
>> php5 (5.2.6.dfsg.1-0.1) unstable; urgency=low
>> .
>> * Non-maintainer upload.
>> * Remove exts/dbase from orig tarball (Closes: #341420)
>
> Do you mind at least contacting the maintainers?
>
> I find your upload very impolite.

Notwithstanding the requirement to send diffs for NMUs, the bug log is a
good example of how not to deal with bugs properly.
While it's laudable that you bring the bug up in front, the bug log
ended in open questions from three weeks ago. For stuff that is easily
fixable that is 50% longer than what we expect for RC bug fixes.
0-day NMUs means that the requirement for advance contact is reduced to
sending the NMU diff at the time of an upload for existing, old-enough bugs.

If, for any reason, you aren't able fix an RC bug in a package of
yours within 2 weeks, you should either ask for help by sending a mail
to the Quality Assurance (QA) group <debian-qa@lists.debian.org>, or
explain your difficulties and present a plan to fix them by sending a
mail to the bug report.
-- Developer's Reference 3.6

Mind you, acknowledging the fact that someone else took the trouble of
looking at your package might be an idea if you want to set an example
instead of just demanding politeness.

Kind regards

T.
--
Thomas Viehmann, http://thomas.viehmann.net/


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Old 12-01-2008, 09:23 AM
"Thijs Kinkhorst"
 
Default Bug#341420: marked as done (code in exts/dbase is not DFSG-free)

On Mon, December 1, 2008 08:52, Thomas Viehmann wrote:
> Mind you, acknowledging the fact that someone else took the trouble of
> looking at your package might be an idea if you want to set an example
> instead of just demanding politeness.

So to conclude this thread, both sides could have done things better, and
we're now going back to our development activities.


thanks,
Thijs


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Old 12-01-2008, 05:06 PM
Florian Weimer
 
Default Bug#341420: marked as done (code in exts/dbase is not DFSG-free)

* Raphael Geissert:

> Also, the issue affects all versions of php from php3 to php5. So in
> case you are interested in "fixing" the whole problem then deal with
> the copies at archive.d.o, snapshot.d.n, and master.

AFAIK, this is only the case for things that are non-distributable.
Mere DFSG violations are not sufficient.


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