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Old 08-22-2008, 09:02 PM
 
Default newer sub package zaps main package instead of waiting

Say, often a developer upgrades a group of related packages, but they
don't hit the mirrors at the same time. This causes apt-get
dselect-upgrade and dist-upgrade to remove the older parts instead of
holding back for the newer parts. One must use apt-get upgrade for the
many days the condition persists.

Apparently the problem is in the build system for different
architectures.

It seems some simple enhancement somewhere in the chain of processes
from the developer down thru apt would alleviate the problem.

The goal would be the sid user could then use apt-get dselect-upgrade
or dist-upgrade without the risk of removing packages just because one
part of their group hit the mirror first.

I.e., instead of just saying that sid is a man's world, not for kids,
it would be better to see what enhancement could be made to avoid the
problem. Maybe "Package Group" is a new field needed in a package
header? Maybe some additional general apt logic switch?

Some examples are transmission #495679, and gimp-data zapping gimp.


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Old 08-22-2008, 09:07 PM
 
Default newer sub package zaps main package instead of waiting

I.e., here we see apt gets it right for php5, but not for gimp:
# apt-get -o Debug:kgProblemResolver=true dist-upgrade
Investigating php5
Package php5 has broken dep on libapache2-mod-php5
Package php5 has broken dep on libapache2-mod-php5filter
Package php5 has broken dep on php5-cgi
Or group remove for php5
Package php5 has broken dep on php5-common
Investigating gimp
Package gimp has broken dep on gimp-data
Considering gimp-data 2 as a solution to gimp 0
Removing gimp rather than change gimp-data
Try to Re-Instate php5
Done


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Old 08-22-2008, 10:07 PM
 
Default newer sub package zaps main package instead of waiting

AP> apt-get dist-upgrade is not meant to be run on a daily basis on sid, but
AP> only as needed and for when you actually look at the output to make sure
AP> it doesn't remove something you actually want. Second of all, "real men"
AP> use aptitude, which handles these kinds of dependencies in a smarter way.

I used to use aptitude, and even dselect, but I found one needed to
use their full screen modes to use them to their full extent, which
was too exciting for me, so retreated to the simpler apt-get
dselect-upgrade to stay on top of things, much better than plain
apt-get upgrade.


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Old 08-23-2008, 12:57 AM
The Fungi
 
Default newer sub package zaps main package instead of waiting

On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 06:07:46AM +0800, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
> I used to use aptitude, and even dselect, but I found one needed to
> use their full screen modes to use them to their full extent, which
> was too exciting for me, so retreated to the simpler apt-get
> dselect-upgrade to stay on top of things, much better than plain
> apt-get upgrade.

You can similarly use aptitude from the command line. I use it
exclusively in place of apt-get any more, with the exception of its
(last I checked) missing "source" and "build-dep" analogues. On sid
and lenny, I frequently run:

aptitude update
aptitude safe-upgrade
aptitude dist-upgrade

(safe-upgrade was just called upgrade on etch).
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AIM(dreadazathoth); YAHOO(crawlingchaoslabs); FINGER(fungi@yuggoth.org);
MUD(fungi@katarsis.mudpy.org:6669); WWW(http://fungi.yuggoth.org/); }


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Old 08-23-2008, 02:17 AM
 
Default newer sub package zaps main package instead of waiting

TF> aptitude safe-upgrade
TF> aptitude dist-upgrade
OK works good and I am sold.

Maybe I can even use aptitude to solve my other posting today
"how to keep the latest linux-doc package installed?"


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Old 08-23-2008, 05:57 PM
Daniel Burrows
 
Default newer sub package zaps main package instead of waiting

On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 05:02:49AM +0800, jidanni@jidanni.org was heard to say:
> Say, often a developer upgrades a group of related packages, but they
> don't hit the mirrors at the same time. This causes apt-get
> dselect-upgrade and dist-upgrade to remove the older parts instead of
> holding back for the newer parts. One must use apt-get upgrade for the
> many days the condition persists.

This sort of situation was the motivation for a change to the
behavior of the "upgrade" command in aptitude. Unlike apt-get,
aptitude will install new packages in "safe-upgrade" (formerly
"upgrade"); it just refuses to remove any packages to resolve
dependencies. (it will still remove automatically installed packages
if nothing uses them) Since new packages were the main reason I used
full-upgrade, I've found that I can carry on (in unstable, no less)
safe-upgrading for weeks at a time before I need to run a full-upgrade
to sort out some tricky dependency problem.

Daniel


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