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Old 07-21-2008, 05:31 PM
Kushal Koolwal
 
Default Intel Atom Processor

Hello,

First of all I apologize if this question is not appropriate for this mailing list. I scanned the entire Debian Mailing Lists and I thought this might be the most appropriate. If it is not then please direct me to the correct one.

Now the question:
I was wondering if there is any development amongst the Debian community with regards to supporting Intel's latest low power Atom processor which will be mostly used in UMPC (Ultra mobile PC).
http://www.intel.com/technology/atom/index.htm

While researching over this on the Internet I came across the following website which mentions about Ubuntu having some sort of support for this processor.
http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/ubuntu-linux-remix.html

And therefore I was thinking if Debian Project is planning to natively support these?

Thank you in advance.

Kushal




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Old 07-22-2008, 02:51 AM
"Paul Wise"
 
Default Intel Atom Processor

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 1:31 AM, Kushal Koolwal
<kushalkoolwal@hotmail.com> wrote:

> And therefore I was thinking if Debian Project is planning to natively support these?

I noticed this page being created on the wiki recently:

http://wiki.debian.org/DebianAcerOne

Looks like at least one person plans to work on it in some way.

Since it is just x86, the i386 port would probably work fine on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverthorne_(CPU)

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Old 07-22-2008, 06:45 AM
Kushal Koolwal
 
Default Intel Atom Processor

> The atom seem to be x86-compatible. so what is the issue that would stop
> it from any i386-based Debian package?
That's true. But it seems that these processors are low power and are made for Ultra mobile PC (UMPC) and netbooks and to take advantage of this the applications need to be optimized/ported to take advantages that this processor has to offer.

For example, Ubuntu started the netbook-remix program to port applications for Intel Atom processors based on the Intel's moblin project (http://www.moblin.org/).
https://edge.launchpad.net/netbook-remix

And therefore I was wondering if Debian community is planning to have something like this.

Thank you once again for your time.

Kushal Koolwal

I do blog at http://blogs.koolwal.net/



> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 01:06:47 -0400
> From: kevin.mark@verizon.net
> To: kushalkoolwal@hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: Intel Atom Processor
>
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 10:31:23AM -0700, Kushal Koolwal wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> First of all I apologize if this question is not appropriate for this mailing list. I scanned the entire Debian Mailing Lists and I thought this might be the most appropriate. If it is not then please direct me to the correct one.
>>
>> Now the question:
>> I was wondering if there is any development amongst the Debian community with regards to supporting Intel's latest low power Atom processor which will be mostly used in UMPC (Ultra mobile PC).
>> http://www.intel.com/technology/atom/index.htm
>>
>> While researching over this on the Internet I came across the following website which mentions about Ubuntu having some sort of support for this processor.
>> http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/ubuntu-linux-remix.html
>>
>> And therefore I was thinking if Debian Project is planning to natively support these?
>>
>> Thank you in advance.
>>
>> Kushal
>
> The atom seem to be x86-compatible. so what is the issue that would stop
> it from any i386-based debian package?
> -K
> --
> | .'`. == Debian GNU/Linux == | my web site: |
> | : :' : The Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
> | `. `' Operating System | go to counter.li.org and |
> | `- http://www.debian.org/ | be counted! #238656 |
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Old 07-22-2008, 06:59 AM
"Paul Wise"
 
Default Intel Atom Processor

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Kushal Koolwal
<kushalkoolwal@hotmail.com> wrote:

> For example, Ubuntu started the netbook-remix program to port applications for Intel Atom processors based on the Intel's moblin project (http://www.moblin.org/).
> https://edge.launchpad.net/netbook-remix

None of the packages there look like they have anything to do with the
CPU, they seem to be basically ways to work with smaller screens of
low resolution.

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Old 07-22-2008, 08:23 AM
Kushal Koolwal
 
Default Intel Atom Processor

> I got your point, you mean we(group of debian) should make a blueprint for some Device like Netbook / UMPC /> MIDs.
Yes. Exactly!

>what is your blueprint based debian like?
At this point of time I am not sure what is going to look like. May be it will help me if you can tell me what exactly do you mean by it. I apologize for my unfamiliarity with some of the terms.

>maybe we can start a project named mobian (mobile debian) ?
Yes this would be awesome. This will bring Debian up to the speed of likes of Ubuntu. I would be happy to assist in this with whatever knowledge and skills I have.

Thanks for effort and initiative.

Kushal Koolwal

I do blog at http://blogs.koolwal.net/



________________________________
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:30:37 +0800
From: freet15@gmail.com
To: kushalkoolwal@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Intel Atom Processor

Hmm. I got your point, you mean we(group of debian) should make a blueprint for some Device like Netbook / UMPC / MIDs.

what is your blueprint based debian like?
maybe we can start a project named mobian (mobile debian) ?



On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Kushal Koolwal wrote:



> The atom seem to be x86-compatible. so what is the issue that would stop

> it from any i386-based Debian package?

That's true. But it seems that these processors are low power and are made for Ultra mobile PC (UMPC) and netbooks and to take advantage of this the applications need to be optimized/ported to take advantages that this processor has to offer.




For example, Ubuntu started the netbook-remix program to port applications for Intel Atom processors based on the Intel's moblin project (http://www.moblin.org/).


https://edge.launchpad.net/netbook-remix



And therefore I was wondering if Debian community is planning to have something like this.



Thank you once again for your time.



Kushal Koolwal



I do blog at http://blogs.koolwal.net/







> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 01:06:47 -0400

> From: kevin.mark@verizon.net

> To: kushalkoolwal@hotmail.com

> Subject: Re: Intel Atom Processor

>

> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 10:31:23AM -0700, Kushal Koolwal wrote:

>>

>> Hello,

>>

>> First of all I apologize if this question is not appropriate for this mailing list. I scanned the entire Debian Mailing Lists and I thought this might be the most appropriate. If it is not then please direct me to the correct one.


>>

>> Now the question:

>> I was wondering if there is any development amongst the Debian community with regards to supporting Intel's latest low power Atom processor which will be mostly used in UMPC (Ultra mobile PC).

>> http://www.intel.com/technology/atom/index.htm

>>

>> While researching over this on the Internet I came across the following website which mentions about Ubuntu having some sort of support for this processor.

>> http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/ubuntu-linux-remix.html

>>

>> And therefore I was thinking if Debian Project is planning to natively support these?

>>

>> Thank you in advance.

>>

>> Kushal

>

> The atom seem to be x86-compatible. so what is the issue that would stop

> it from any i386-based debian package?

> -K

> --

> | .'`. == Debian GNU/Linux == | my web site: |

> | : :' : The Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|

> | `. `' Operating System | go to counter.li.org and |

> | `- http://www.debian.org/ | be counted! #238656 |

> | my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |

> |join the new debian-community.org to help Debian! |

> |_______ Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed _______|



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Old 07-22-2008, 01:03 PM
Goswin von Brederlow
 
Default Intel Atom Processor

"Paul Wise" <pabs@debian.org> writes:

> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 1:31 AM, Kushal Koolwal
> <kushalkoolwal@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> And therefore I was thinking if Debian Project is planning to natively support these?
>
> I noticed this page being created on the wiki recently:
>
> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianAcerOne
>
> Looks like at least one person plans to work on it in some way.
>
> Since it is just x86, the i386 port would probably work fine on it.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverthorne_(CPU)

I might be wrong but I thought the atom CPU would add 64bit
support. As such the Debian amd64 port should work as well.

Then, for better optimization for low disk/memory systems, the emdebian
project would be the right place. Currently the project is quite arm
centered as most hardware uses that, esspecially those the devlopers
have. But mips is also a target and I'm personally interested in
supporting i386 for my VIA Eden gateway/fileserver and amd64 for
netboot rescue images.

MfG
Goswin

PS: The best way to get it supported is to sponsor the hardware or to
talk someone else into sponsoring it.


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Old 07-22-2008, 01:58 PM
Gabor Gombas
 
Default Intel Atom Processor

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 03:03:27PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:

> I might be wrong but I thought the atom CPU would add 64bit
> support. As such the Debian amd64 port should work as well.

According to Wikipedia and the linked Intel sheets, only the desktop
version has 64-bit support.

Gabor

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Old 07-22-2008, 02:17 PM
Lucas Nussbaum
 
Default Intel Atom Processor

On 22/07/08 at 01:23 -0700, Kushal Koolwal wrote:
> >maybe we can start a project named mobian (mobile debian) ?
> Yes this would be awesome. This will bring Debian up to the speed of likes of Ubuntu. I would be happy to assist in this with whatever knowledge and skills I have.

Yeah, great idea! Let's start Debian subdistros for every specific use
one can think of. This whole "universal operating system" idea is so
old. What about gebian, kebian, xebian?

Seriously, it would be more interesting to determine what would need to
be changed in Debian to improve support for such devices. AFAIK (and
according to [1]), Ubuntu's lpia "port" is only about compiling packages
using different optimization options.

[1] http://lwn.net/Articles/247003/
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Old 07-22-2008, 03:51 PM
Loc Minier
 
Default Intel Atom Processor

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008, Kushal Koolwal wrote:
> > The atom seem to be x86-compatible. so what is the issue that would stop
> > it from any i386-based Debian package?
> That's true. But it seems that these processors are low power and are
> made for Ultra mobile PC (UMPC) and netbooks and to take advantage of
> this the applications need to be optimized/ported to take advantages
> that this processor has to offer.
>
> For example, Ubuntu started the netbook-remix program to port
> applications for Intel Atom processors based on the Intel's moblin
> project (http://www.moblin.org/).
> https://edge.launchpad.net/netbook-remix

Hmm you're mixing many different things here.

The Ubuntu Netbook Remix (UNR) effort is one to provide a good desktop
experience on subnotebooks / UMPCs by using a different desktop
representation of the same apps.

moblin 1.0 is an effort to provide new software for Mobile Internet
Devices (MIDs); small screens too, but importantly *touchscreen* based,
and even smaller form factor. In 1.0, moblin software runs atop the
"Hildon" stack, the Gtk+-based toolkit developped by Nokia for its MID
series.

Ubuntu's project to support Intel Atom processors takes the form of the
"lpia" dpkg architecture which is basically like x86, but with
different optimizations. Also, this architecture has been used to
enable Hildon or MID specific changes / patches / configs / hacks.

moblin software is being packaged in Ubuntu. I'm not sure UNR landed
in Ubuntu proper for now. I think current UNR images are only i386
based (not lpia). Ubuntu Mobile / Ubuntu MID images are only lpia.

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Old 07-22-2008, 03:58 PM
Loc Minier
 
Default Intel Atom Processor

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> Yeah, great idea! Let's start Debian subdistros for every specific use
> one can think of. This whole "universal operating system" idea is so
> old. What about gebian, kebian, xebian?

Would it be wrong to ship different flavors of the Debian CDs based on
various upstream software? Debian has tons of text editors, window
managers, web browsers, desktop environments; the Debian archive is
universally useful, but I'm sure there's interest in tailored Debian
CDs/DVDs for various use cases.

> Seriously, it would be more interesting to determine what would need to
> be changed in Debian to improve support for such devices. AFAIK (and
> according to [1]), Ubuntu's lpia "port" is only about compiling packages
> using different optimization options.
>
> [1] http://lwn.net/Articles/247003/

Actually, some configure flags, features, options etc. are enabled /
tuned differently if the dpkg architecture equals lpia -- not terribly
nice though. For instance, "cheese" is built with --enable-hildon on
lpia and only there. A nicer way to handle this is to build packages
twice, see for instance "dates" versus "dates-hildon". This isn't very
practical though. Ideally, packages would provide their UI as runtime
plugins split across separate binary packages, but we're far from a
perfect world here.

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