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Old 07-15-2008, 05:49 PM
John Goerzen
 
Default Xen status in lenny?

Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 09:24:08AM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:

>
> Xensource has a developer working on getting xen patches ported to Linux
> pv_ops framework and integrated into upstream (vanilla) kernel.

That is, to me, only mildly encouraging. 2.6.18 came out on Sept. 19,
2006, and there haven't been official Xen patches on anything else
since. I don't know if that programmer hasn't been able to be very
productive, or if Xensource has just recently assigned someone to the
task. But in any case, it does not speak well of the long-term
viability of Xen.

Not only that, but I like the KVM model of Linux as the hypervisor. Xen
hypervisor is kinda finicky about hardware; I've had it refuse to boot
properly on Athlon64 machines for instance.

-- John


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Old 07-15-2008, 06:59 PM
Pasi Kärkkäinen
 
Default Xen status in lenny?

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 12:49:07PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
> Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 09:24:08AM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
>
> >
> > Xensource has a developer working on getting xen patches ported to Linux
> > pv_ops framework and integrated into upstream (vanilla) kernel.
>
> That is, to me, only mildly encouraging. 2.6.18 came out on Sept. 19,
> 2006, and there haven't been official Xen patches on anything else
> since. I don't know if that programmer hasn't been able to be very
> productive, or if Xensource has just recently assigned someone to the
> task. But in any case, it does not speak well of the long-term
> viability of Xen.
>

Xensource is using 2.6.18 (RHEL5) in their own commercial product, so that's
why they're focusing xen kernel development on that version..

Xensource tried getting xen patches integrated into upstream linux earlier,
but it didn't succeed (too big changes?) and kernel developers decided
they need to create this common "pv_ops" framework for running paravirtual
linux on hypervisors..

So that has taken some time.. and only recently (some) xen features have been ported to
this pv_ops framework and integrated into vanilla kernel.. more features are being ported.

So yeah.. atm the xen/dom0 kernel situation is a bit shitty..

pv_ops (VMI) paravirtual linux kernels are also supported by VMware.

-- Pasi


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Old 07-15-2008, 09:10 PM
Goswin von Brederlow
 
Default Xen status in lenny?

Lucas Nussbaum <lucas@lucas-nussbaum.net> writes:

> On 15/07/08 at 14:01 +0200, Thijs Kinkhorst wrote:
>> Xen is just one solution to virtualisation. I may agree that a general
>> decision to support virtualisation on Debian could be a policy decision, but
>> whether we'll support one specific technology, for which there are many
>> alternatives, is very much a technical decision. Does it work, can we get it
>> to work and do we have the people to keep it work after release?
>
> Debian supported Xen in etch. Which of the "many alternatives" should
> Debian recommend to its users currently running a Debian dom0 in
> paravirt mode?

Isn't the policy decision in question here to only have one kernel
source in a release?

> I don't think that any of the alternatives are valid candidates yet:
> - Linux-Vserver, OpenVZ: clearly not the same use case.
> - Virtualbox, qemu: poor performance under some workloads.

Unusable for production work. Emulation is just too slow. The group of
people that can live with that much slow down compared to xen is
miniscule.

> - KVM: is very promising but is it really a valid alternative *now*
> for current Xen users?

KVM needs hardware support and even then its I/O is slower. It also
deadlocks the I/O under I/O load from time to time.

I could live with the I/O slowdown but nothing will make hardware
magically appear.

> This might change in a few months, of course, but in a few months lenny
> will be released. ;-)


MfG
Goswin


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Old 07-16-2008, 12:54 AM
Ben Hutchings
 
Default Xen status in lenny?

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
<snip>
> Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the
> important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated
> into vanilla linus kernels soon..
>
> Status/todo:
> http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
>
> Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status:
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0

SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be
available any day now from
<ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/kernel/kotd/SL110_BRANCH/i386/>. Is it
possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the
kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26?

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
Beware of bugs in the above code;
I have only proved it correct, not tried it. - Donald Knuth
 
Old 07-16-2008, 12:54 AM
Ben Hutchings
 
Default Xen status in lenny?

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
<snip>
> Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the
> important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated
> into vanilla linus kernels soon..
>
> Status/todo:
> http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
>
> Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status:
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0

SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be
available any day now from
<ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/kernel/kotd/SL110_BRANCH/i386/>. Is it
possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the
kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26?

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
Beware of bugs in the above code;
I have only proved it correct, not tried it. - Donald Knuth
 
Old 07-16-2008, 08:12 AM
Pasi Kärkkäinen
 
Default Xen status in lenny?

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 01:54:50AM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> <snip>
> > Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the
> > important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated
> > into vanilla linus kernels soon..
> >
> > Status/todo:
> > http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> >

This xensource wiki page was just updated to contain up-to-date status,
ie. features present in 2.6.26 and features submitted for 2.6.27.


> > Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status:
> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0
>
> SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be
> available any day now from
> <ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/kernel/kotd/SL110_BRANCH/i386/>. Is it
> possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the
> kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26?
>

Interesting.. do you know if they have dom0 support etc included? based on
pv_ops?

-- Pasi


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Old 07-16-2008, 08:12 AM
Pasi Kärkkäinen
 
Default Xen status in lenny?

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 01:54:50AM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> <snip>
> > Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the
> > important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated
> > into vanilla linus kernels soon..
> >
> > Status/todo:
> > http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> >

This xensource wiki page was just updated to contain up-to-date status,
ie. features present in 2.6.26 and features submitted for 2.6.27.


> > Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status:
> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0
>
> SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be
> available any day now from
> <ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/kernel/kotd/SL110_BRANCH/i386/>. Is it
> possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the
> kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26?
>

Interesting.. do you know if they have dom0 support etc included? based on
pv_ops?

-- Pasi


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Old 07-16-2008, 08:40 AM
William Pitcock
 
Default Xen status in lenny?

On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 11:12 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 01:54:50AM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > <snip>
> > > Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the
> > > important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated
> > > into vanilla linus kernels soon..
> > >
> > > Status/todo:
> > > http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> > >
>
> This xensource wiki page was just updated to contain up-to-date status,
> ie. features present in 2.6.26 and features submitted for 2.6.27.
>
>
> > > Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status:
> > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0
> >
> > SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be
> > available any day now from
> > <ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/kernel/kotd/SL110_BRANCH/i386/>. Is it
> > possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the
> > kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26?
> >
>
> Interesting.. do you know if they have dom0 support etc included? based on
> pv_ops?

They include dom0 and are not based on paravirt_ops AFAIK.

William
 
Old 07-16-2008, 08:40 AM
William Pitcock
 
Default Xen status in lenny?

On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 11:12 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 01:54:50AM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > <snip>
> > > Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the
> > > important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated
> > > into vanilla linus kernels soon..
> > >
> > > Status/todo:
> > > http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> > >
>
> This xensource wiki page was just updated to contain up-to-date status,
> ie. features present in 2.6.26 and features submitted for 2.6.27.
>
>
> > > Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status:
> > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0
> >
> > SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be
> > available any day now from
> > <ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/kernel/kotd/SL110_BRANCH/i386/>. Is it
> > possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the
> > kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26?
> >
>
> Interesting.. do you know if they have dom0 support etc included? based on
> pv_ops?

They include dom0 and are not based on paravirt_ops AFAIK.

William
 
Old 07-16-2008, 08:42 AM
Pasi Kärkkäinen
 
Default Xen status in lenny?

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 03:40:38AM -0500, William Pitcock wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 11:12 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 01:54:50AM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > > <snip>
> > > > Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the
> > > > important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated
> > > > into vanilla linus kernels soon..
> > > >
> > > > Status/todo:
> > > > http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> > > >
> >
> > This xensource wiki page was just updated to contain up-to-date status,
> > ie. features present in 2.6.26 and features submitted for 2.6.27.
> >
> >
> > > > Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status:
> > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0
> > >
> > > SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be
> > > available any day now from
> > > <ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/kernel/kotd/SL110_BRANCH/i386/>. Is it
> > > possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the
> > > kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26?
> > >
> >
> > Interesting.. do you know if they have dom0 support etc included? based on
> > pv_ops?
>
> They include dom0 and are not based on paravirt_ops AFAIK.
>

Argh.. even more forward porting from xensource 2.6.18 tree instead of
porting to pv_ops and getting the pathes integrated upstream to vanilla
kernel

I guess it was faster _now_, but they'll have to live with the forward
porting pain for years more now..

-- Pasi


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