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Old 03-18-2008, 01:02 PM
 
Default RFC: Search and load drivers automatically fromusb-storage media

Hello John

That is what this patch is attempting to do, solve the problem of
hunting for drivers on the net. This patch is changing anaconda so that
it automagically looks for drivers in USB storage embedded inside the
box loads and installs it. Maybe not for the old hardware that you
already are using but for the upcoming servers.

regards,
sandeep.

-----Original Message-----
From: anaconda-devel-list-bounces@redhat.com
[mailto:anaconda-devel-list-bounces@redhat.com] On Behalf Of John
Summerfield
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 5:18 PM
To: Discussion of Development and Customization of the Red Hat Linux
Installer
Subject: Re: [ PATCH ] RFC: Search and load drivers automatically
fromusb-storage media

Sandeep_K_Shandilya@Dell.com wrote:
> Hello
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: anaconda-devel-list-bounces@redhat.com on behalf of Bill
> Nottingham
> Sent: Mon 3/17/2008 8:13 PM
> To: Discussion of Development and Customization of the Red Hat Linux
> Installer
> Subject: Re: [ PATCH ] RFC: Search and load drivers automatically
> fromusb-storage media
>
> Sandeep_K_Shandilya@Dell.com (Sandeep_K_Shandilya@Dell.com) said:
>> 2) Automatic mounting of partitions with no way to opt-out can lead
>> to problems over time <sandeep> Do you have any specific areas in the

>> anaconda loader that you are referrring to?
>> we will anyway unmount the partition after copying the driver updates

>> to ramfs.
>
> Imagine trying to search 500 SAN partitions for driver updates.
> <sandeep> We only search usb-storage devices.
>
>> 4) What's better about doing this automatically as opposed to
>> actually having the user specify that "yes, I have a driver disk"
>> <Sandeep> Think about it this way, Suppose the drivers with new
>> hardware support are placed in a utility partition (OEM will prepare
>> this on the
>> system) on an embedded USB storage device, or thinking a little bit
>> more into the future the driver may reside on the internet Dell is
>> already pursuing this and Dell servers to be released in future may
>> have embedded usb-storage with drivers, diagnostics etc...
>
> Right, but what good does embedded usb-storage with drivers do you for

> the next OS release a few months later?
> <sandeep>
> 1. The same is with hardware and firmware which keep upgrading every
few months.
> 2. OEMs like Dell have baselined to, say, version RHEL 5.0 Every time
the hardware/firmware changes
> which calls for a new driver then we will qualify the new driver
and release it on our support
> page. It will be a very exhaustive effort to qualify all new
drivers for every update that Redhat releases.
> 3. The Embedded usb-storage could also contain other applications Eg
diagnostics and the user to boot into it
> to test the hardware on the server.
> 4. These drivers will be used at install time to recognise new
hardware and in the post install phase of anaconda
> a dkms rpm (http://linux.dell.com/projects.shtml#dkms) of the
driver will be installed. The changes to backend.py
> in the patch.

_I_ maintain the computers for a small school; typically our computers
are bought at auction, and they're a pretty mixed lot. It seems Dell was
doing well a few years ago, so most of the computers we've bought in the
past year have been Dell gx240s, gx260s and gx270s.

One thing I really hat is chasing all over the Internet for drivers for
the Dells, the Acers, and the HP-Compaqs we have. Oh, and some whitebox
systems built on Intel motherboards. Since Dell's listening, I
especially don't like it that the drivers are distributed as
self-unpacking exes and that their file names do not (so far as I can
tell) reflect the contents. My idea of an ideal install is I boot the
computer off the LAN, make a few choices and leave it to run.

Linux is better than that, and I will not willingly chase all over the
Internet for Linux drivers. If it doesn't work with standard RHEL5 or
SLE{S,D}10 or Debian or whatever I'm trying to run, then it does not
work at all.


>
> Bill
>
> _______________________________________________
> Anaconda-devel-list mailing list
> Anaconda-devel-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/anaconda-devel-list
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
> _______________________________________________
> Anaconda-devel-list mailing list
> Anaconda-devel-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/anaconda-devel-list


--

Cheers
John

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You cannot reply off-list:-)

_______________________________________________
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Anaconda-devel-list@redhat.com
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_______________________________________________
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Old 03-18-2008, 01:02 PM
 
Default RFC: Search and load drivers automatically fromusb-storage media

Hello John

That is what this patch is attempting to do, solve the problem of
hunting for drivers on the net. This patch is changing anaconda so that
it automagically looks for drivers in USB storage embedded inside the
box loads and installs it. Maybe not for the old hardware that you
already are using but for the upcoming servers.

regards,
sandeep.

-----Original Message-----
From: anaconda-devel-list-bounces@redhat.com
[mailto:anaconda-devel-list-bounces@redhat.com] On Behalf Of John
Summerfield
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 5:18 PM
To: Discussion of Development and Customization of the Red Hat Linux
Installer
Subject: Re: [ PATCH ] RFC: Search and load drivers automatically
fromusb-storage media

Sandeep_K_Shandilya@Dell.com wrote:
> Hello
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: anaconda-devel-list-bounces@redhat.com on behalf of Bill
> Nottingham
> Sent: Mon 3/17/2008 8:13 PM
> To: Discussion of Development and Customization of the Red Hat Linux
> Installer
> Subject: Re: [ PATCH ] RFC: Search and load drivers automatically
> fromusb-storage media
>
> Sandeep_K_Shandilya@Dell.com (Sandeep_K_Shandilya@Dell.com) said:
>> 2) Automatic mounting of partitions with no way to opt-out can lead
>> to problems over time <sandeep> Do you have any specific areas in the

>> anaconda loader that you are referrring to?
>> we will anyway unmount the partition after copying the driver updates

>> to ramfs.
>
> Imagine trying to search 500 SAN partitions for driver updates.
> <sandeep> We only search usb-storage devices.
>
>> 4) What's better about doing this automatically as opposed to
>> actually having the user specify that "yes, I have a driver disk"
>> <Sandeep> Think about it this way, Suppose the drivers with new
>> hardware support are placed in a utility partition (OEM will prepare
>> this on the
>> system) on an embedded USB storage device, or thinking a little bit
>> more into the future the driver may reside on the internet Dell is
>> already pursuing this and Dell servers to be released in future may
>> have embedded usb-storage with drivers, diagnostics etc...
>
> Right, but what good does embedded usb-storage with drivers do you for

> the next OS release a few months later?
> <sandeep>
> 1. The same is with hardware and firmware which keep upgrading every
few months.
> 2. OEMs like Dell have baselined to, say, version RHEL 5.0 Every time
the hardware/firmware changes
> which calls for a new driver then we will qualify the new driver
and release it on our support
> page. It will be a very exhaustive effort to qualify all new
drivers for every update that Redhat releases.
> 3. The Embedded usb-storage could also contain other applications Eg
diagnostics and the user to boot into it
> to test the hardware on the server.
> 4. These drivers will be used at install time to recognise new
hardware and in the post install phase of anaconda
> a dkms rpm (http://linux.dell.com/projects.shtml#dkms) of the
driver will be installed. The changes to backend.py
> in the patch.

_I_ maintain the computers for a small school; typically our computers
are bought at auction, and they're a pretty mixed lot. It seems Dell was
doing well a few years ago, so most of the computers we've bought in the
past year have been Dell gx240s, gx260s and gx270s.

One thing I really hat is chasing all over the Internet for drivers for
the Dells, the Acers, and the HP-Compaqs we have. Oh, and some whitebox
systems built on Intel motherboards. Since Dell's listening, I
especially don't like it that the drivers are distributed as
self-unpacking exes and that their file names do not (so far as I can
tell) reflect the contents. My idea of an ideal install is I boot the
computer off the LAN, make a few choices and leave it to run.

Linux is better than that, and I will not willingly chase all over the
Internet for Linux drivers. If it doesn't work with standard RHEL5 or
SLE{S,D}10 or Debian or whatever I'm trying to run, then it does not
work at all.


>
> Bill
>
> _______________________________________________
> Anaconda-devel-list mailing list
> Anaconda-devel-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/anaconda-devel-list
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
> _______________________________________________
> Anaconda-devel-list mailing list
> Anaconda-devel-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/anaconda-devel-list


--

Cheers
John

-- spambait
1aaaaaaa@coco.merseine.nu Z1aaaaaaa@coco.merseine.nu
-- Advice
http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

You cannot reply off-list:-)

_______________________________________________
Anaconda-devel-list mailing list
Anaconda-devel-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/anaconda-devel-list

_______________________________________________
Anaconda-devel-list mailing list
Anaconda-devel-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/anaconda-devel-list
 
Old 03-18-2008, 10:53 PM
John Summerfield
 
Default RFC: Search and load drivers automatically fromusb-storage media

Sandeep_K_Shandilya@Dell.com wrote:

Hello John

That is what this patch is attempting to do, solve the problem of
hunting for drivers on the net. This patch is changing anaconda so that
it automagically looks for drivers in USB storage embedded inside the
box loads and installs it. Maybe not for the old hardware that you
already are using but for the upcoming servers.


So you have binary-only drivers?

My very favourite rescue disk is Knoppix. Sometimes I have the latest on
hand, sometimes not. I am less concerned about security updates than I
am about my regular distro, so provided the CD to hand boots I'm happy
to use it. I use it for Linux and Windows systems alike - i can't do a
lot to _repair_ a broken Windows system, but it can help with cloning
it, with resizing its filesystems etc.


Debian is very picky about what it allows into its distro, and Knoppix
is based off Debian. Klaus Knopper, who created Knoppix, might not see
value in including DKMS, he has to make some sacrifices to get it all
down to a single CD.


If it doesn't work with your hardware, then I can't use my favourite
rescue CD.


If I'm running a standard RHEL or CentOS or Fedora or Debian or *SUSE
system and I have a problem, I have a well-defined path to follow to
report it and in the fullness of time to get a fix.


As I understand it, if I'm running one of your binary-only drivers, I
don't have any support. The kernel's tainted and, I've been told, the
fact of the driver's being loaded means it could have done bad things.


I recall an incident, many years ago, when RH was bitten by this very
issue, in respect of CDE that RH used to distribute with RHL. RH
couldn't fix CDE and its supplier wouldn't or wouldn't do it in the
timeframe RH required.


I'm not sure that DELL would provide full support for RHEL, or even the
kernel, on one of its servers.


And if you think I'm difficult, go to debian.org and read some of the
discussions about non-free bits in the kernel!







--

Cheers
John

-- spambait
1aaaaaaa@coco.merseine.nu Z1aaaaaaa@coco.merseine.nu
-- Advice
http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

You cannot reply off-list:-)

_______________________________________________
Anaconda-devel-list mailing list
Anaconda-devel-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/anaconda-devel-list
 

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