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Old 07-26-2012, 11:34 AM
Fernando Cassia
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:00 AM, Giles Coochey <giles@coochey.net> wrote:
> echo nameserver e.f.g.h > /etc/resolv.conf
> echo nameserver i.j.k.l >> /etc/resolv.conf

Yes I know BUT for that I have to THINK. Screens and input fields ie
type tab tab tab enter type tab tab tab enter are what is known as
"user friendly" since the MS-DOS 5.0 setup.exe onwards...



FC
PS: I had forgotten about echo >> ... good enough for saving me from
the vi madness. (I know, I know, esc i blah blah esc :w but still, I
REFUSE -it's a matter of principle not to use vi ;-)

--
During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un
Acto Revolucionario
- George Orwell
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Old 07-26-2012, 02:42 PM
Fernando Cassia
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
> do not install servers if you are refuse to think
> really!

Why create GUI installers then?. Let's just package a tarball and let
users unpack it manually.

In fact, are you advocating for the removal of
system-config-network-tui ? how about removal of all non-modal text
editors like joe ? let's force everyone to "think" in 'vi'...

*sarcasm*
FC
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Old 07-26-2012, 02:55 PM
Fernando Cassia
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Scott Robbins <scottro@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> Unfortunately, according to folks who have more knowledge than I do
> about these things, in later versions of Fedora, and therefore, probably
> the next version or so of RH, just manually editing
> sysconfig/network-scripts will overlook some necessary parts.
> system-config-network-tui may wind up becoming necessary.

Good news!.

My point is simple: I install the base config. I'm in text mode. I
need networking to work to install extra packages and begin setting up
my system, users, permissions, packages, etc. I have no problem doing
that manually AFTER I get the system up and running (and by "running"
I mean 'having network connectivity'). Having me edit config files
manually is an *annoyance*.

ONCE I get networking up and running. I have no problem editing config
files, because by then, with networking enabled, I'd have installed my
favorite tools (joe editor etc).

My point being that if the networking stack is part of the base OS
install, so should be system-config-network-tui

FC
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:03 PM
Stephen Harris
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:55:07AM -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote:
> My point being that if the networking stack is part of the base OS
> install, so should be system-config-network-tui

No. A "tui" is a pretty user interface. It's not necessary for the
functioning nor configuration of the operating system; it's a "ease of
use" tool. Nothing more, nothing less.

In Other Words: it's an optional component.

--

rgds
Stephen
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:07 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 6:34 AM, Fernando Cassia <fcassia@gmail.com> wrote:

> PS: I had forgotten about echo >> ... good enough for saving me from
> the vi madness. (I know, I know, esc i blah blah esc :w but still, I
> REFUSE -it's a matter of principle not to use vi ;-)

How can anyone deal with command lines and not love vi? Think of it
as a set of commands to change text. Even what most people call
insert 'mode' is a command that takes an optional repeat count: try
20i -<escape> to get a dashed line.
Maybe being old enough to have used keyboards without arrows or
function keys helps, though...

--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:10 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Stephen Harris <lists@spuddy.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:55:07AM -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote:
>> My point being that if the networking stack is part of the base OS
>> install, so should be system-config-network-tui
>
> No. A "tui" is a pretty user interface. It's not necessary for the
> functioning nor configuration of the operating system; it's a "ease of
> use" tool. Nothing more, nothing less.
>
> In Other Words: it's an optional component.

Yes, let's go back to the days of typing the boot code in hex to get
the system started. It's all optional.

--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:14 PM
Lamar Owen
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On Thursday, July 26, 2012 10:55:07 AM Fernando Cassia wrote:
> My point is simple: I install the base config. I'm in text mode. I
> need networking to work to install extra packages and begin setting up
> my system, users, permissions, packages, etc. I have no problem doing
> that manually AFTER I get the system up and running (and by "running"
> I mean 'having network connectivity'). Having me edit config files
> manually is an *annoyance*.

The way it's supposed to be done is to set up networking during install. The GUI installer has a button, that is clearly labeled, during install. You set it up to connect automatically, and be active for all users, and it starts even in text mode during boot up.

The text installer is effectively deprecated; if you want/need to do, say, a serial console install you're supposed to do a VNC install and run the GUI remotely over a VNC session (the serial console/text mode handler will do enough network configuration to get the GUI installer running over VNC).

Barring that, if the 'Desktop' package set is installed (I last did this with 6.1, so it may be different now) with certain server packages also installed (no, I don't have a rigorous package set to quote, that's left as an exercise for the reader as I'm not going to do your homework for you on that one.....) the system will come up in runlevel 3, but will bring up a text mode firstboot that includes a text mode network configurator. While it would be interesting to see the exact package set that triggers this, I have not had the time nor the motivation to do that myself, just going by what happened when I installed some boxes a while back.
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:20 PM
Stephen Harris
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:10:47AM -0500, Les Mikesell wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Stephen Harris <lists@spuddy.org> wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:55:07AM -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote:
> >> My point being that if the networking stack is part of the base OS
> >> install, so should be system-config-network-tui
> >
> > No. A "tui" is a pretty user interface. It's not necessary for the
> > functioning nor configuration of the operating system; it's a "ease of
> > use" tool. Nothing more, nothing less.
> >
> > In Other Words: it's an optional component.
>
> Yes, let's go back to the days of typing the boot code in hex to get
> the system started. It's all optional.

That's a non-sequitor.

If anything, a "tui" _is_ closer to boot strapping by hand entering
hex. It's a user interfce. A modern machine doesn't need assistance
in booting. If you do it properly it also doesn't need assistance in
network configuration. It "just works".

If you were going to argue that "text editors should be optional by
this argument" then you'd have a really good point. Indeed I might
agree with that. Counter argument: at least one text editor ("vi"?)
is pretty much a BAU tool on every machine, so it makes sense to include
it. system-config-network-tui is not a BAU tool; it doesn't fill the
same gap.

Remember the "E" in RHEL. Es (in my place we have around 40,000 RHEL
installs) configure networking during the build phase. Our standard
install doesn't include this unnecessary component.

--

rgds
Stephen
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:23 PM
Fernando Cassia
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Les Mikesell <lesmikesell@gmail.com> wrote:
> Even what most people call
> insert 'mode' is a command that takes an optional repeat count: try
> 20i -<escape> to get a dashed line.
> Maybe being old enough to have used keyboards without arrows or
> function keys helps, though...

Sorry, I grew with DR-DOS and the Wordstar hotkeys. ie Ctrl-K-B
Ctrl-K-K (mark text block). It's engraved in my brain cells.

That's why I use Joe... or "pico" back in the days of Caldera OpenLinux 2.3...

FC
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:26 PM
Fernando Cassia
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Stephen Harris <lists@spuddy.org> wrote:
> Remember the "E" in RHEL. Es (in my place we have around 40,000 RHEL
> installs) configure networking during the build phase. Our standard
> install doesn't include this unnecessary component.

OK I'm a SOHO with a single server trying to setup a VM.
What you're saying is that RHEL/CentOS should not care about my needs
because there's a Good Reason(TM) for the way things currently are.

FC
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