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Old 07-26-2012, 03:37 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Fernando Cassia <fcassia@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Stephen Harris <lists@spuddy.org> wrote:
>> Remember the "E" in RHEL. Es (in my place we have around 40,000 RHEL
>> installs) configure networking during the build phase. Our standard
>> install doesn't include this unnecessary component.
>
> OK I'm a SOHO with a single server trying to setup a VM.
> What you're saying is that RHEL/CentOS should not care about my needs
> because there's a Good Reason(TM) for the way things currently are.

Basically, small environments will/should have DHCP service so you
don't do individual interface configuration at all (or you configure
the DHCP server to give a known IP to your MAC address if you need
that) and larger ones will need something that can be automated. So
even though I agree with you strongly that there should be a simple
text mode fill-in-the-form way to set up an interface that hides the
magic OS-specific script hints, I understand why nobody considers it
important. So my practical advice is to get a SOHO router that does
DHCP if you don't already have one, and if you do have one, configure
it to give out the IP you want instead of fighting with the Centos
setup.

--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:38 PM
Fernando Cassia
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
> BOAH do SIMPLY NOT make a base-install if it does not
> satisfy you? what is there so complicated?

The installer switched to base mode/text install due to 'low memory'.
I just used the default recommendation by Virtualbox for Linux-RedHat.

FC
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:42 PM
Fernando Cassia
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
> there is nothing wrong in CentOS or Fedora

Of course, in the grand scheme of things, it's not a "problem". A
"problem" is a crashing kernel or buggy drivers.

My opinion after this experience is that it'd help for CentOS to
include system-config-network-tui as part of the base install. That is
my honest opinion about this experience. It'd have saved me from some
minor annoyance, albeit an annoyance nonetheless.

Just think the opposite: what would be the expense-damage of including
it as part of the base install?. Would it:

1. Break the OS
2. Make things easier for people who end up in the same situation I did.
3. Affect the balance of the Universe.

Your choice. I think 2.

FC
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:44 PM
Fernando Cassia
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Les Mikesell <lesmikesell@gmail.com> wrote:
> So my practical advice is to get a SOHO router that does
> DHCP if you don't already have one, and if you do have one, configure
> it to give out the IP you want instead of fighting with the Centos
> setup.

I agree in principle. But my personal experience led me to have static
routing on my home LAN.

If I enable DHCP I end up not knowing what IP address a 'new device'
just plugged into the network has, at any given time.

DHCP gives "initial" convenience, for "long term hassle". (say you
want to telnet-in to your ethernet enabled media player)

FC
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:45 PM
Fernando Cassia
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:39 PM, <m.roth@5-cent.us> wrote:
> Wonder if I could configure the *best* text editor ever to run under wine:
> brief.

Brief was nice. Under OS/2 I also used QEdit which could also... mimic
the Wordstar keystrokes.

FC
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:54 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>
>> Yes, let's go back to the days of typing the boot code in hex to get
>> the system started. It's all optional
>
> jesus christ a basic network connection is configured
> within 30 seconds wich some
>
> echo "whatever" >> file

Umm, no. It takes me longer than that to find the mac address on the
interface in question.

> if someone is too lazy/stupid to configure the network
> with a base-install why in the world does he do a base-install
> at all?

My machines usually have 6 interfaces or so, are set up in one
location, then moved to the production location with the final
configuration (including IP's) done by operators that are better at
windows than linux. Sorry if that doesn't match your view of the way
the world should work.

--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:58 PM
Fernando Cassia
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Les Mikesell <lesmikesell@gmail.com> wrote:
> My machines usually have 6 interfaces or so, are set up in one
> location, then moved to the production location with the final
> configuration (including IP's) done by operators that are better at
> windows than linux. Sorry if that doesn't match your view of the way
> the world should work.

All things considered, I think Reinhald's reaction is somewhat
understandable... ie preservation of the status quo "there's nothing
wrong with the system, it's fine as it is, the problem is the user".

"Resistance to change" I think some call it...

Anyway, I'll file a Request for Enhancement for RHEL if that's possible...

FC
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:59 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Fernando Cassia <fcassia@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Les Mikesell <lesmikesell@gmail.com> wrote:
>> So my practical advice is to get a SOHO router that does
>> DHCP if you don't already have one, and if you do have one, configure
>> it to give out the IP you want instead of fighting with the Centos
>> setup.
>
> I agree in principle. But my personal experience led me to have static
> routing on my home LAN.
>
> If I enable DHCP I end up not knowing what IP address a 'new device'
> just plugged into the network has, at any given time.

Every DHCP server should have a way to configure a fixed IP address to
be given out to a specified ethernet MAC address. My advice was to
learn and use that way.

> DHCP gives "initial" convenience, for "long term hassle". (say you
> want to telnet-in to your ethernet enabled media player)

No, DHCP will do what you tell it to do. The choice is whether you
want to learn the quirks of configuring every device/OS that you might
use on your network or the quirks of the one DHCP server.

--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com
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Old 07-26-2012, 04:03 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:58 AM, Fernando Cassia <fcassia@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Les Mikesell <lesmikesell@gmail.com> wrote:
>> My machines usually have 6 interfaces or so, are set up in one
>> location, then moved to the production location with the final
>> configuration (including IP's) done by operators that are better at
>> windows than linux. Sorry if that doesn't match your view of the way
>> the world should work.
>
> All things considered, I think Reinhald's reaction is somewhat
> understandable... ie preservation of the status quo "there's nothing
> wrong with the system, it's fine as it is, the problem is the user".

If I did it all 'hands-on' I might even agree. But this is something
you need to be able to tell someone else how to do over the phone
because until at least one interface comes up with correct routing in
your remote location, you aren't going to be able to ssh in to do the
rest.

--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com
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Old 07-26-2012, 04:11 PM
Stephen Harris
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:44:20PM -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote:
> DHCP gives "initial" convenience, for "long term hassle". (say you
> want to telnet-in to your ethernet enabled media player)

Like my tivo?
host tivo {
hardware ethernet 00:11:d9:0b:c3:a4;
fixed-address 10.0.0.144;
}

Or other appliance devices?
host wii {
hardware ethernet 00:1f:32:73:c6:a7;
fixed-address 10.0.0.153;
}

host printer {
hardware ethernet 00:1b:a9:22:21:89;
fixed-address 10.0.0.10;
}

Personally I have my own config file:
MACHINE 10.0.0.10 ; 00:1b:a9:22:21:89 ; printer ; Brother MFC-9120CN
MACHINE 10.0.0.144 ;!00:11:d9:0b:c3:a4 ; tivo ; TiVo
MACHINE 10.0.0.153 ;!00:1f:32:73:c6:a7 ; wii ;

>From that I generate my dhcp, DNS, rDNS, IPv6 DNS (except where the MAC
begins with !) and IPv6 rDNS values.

% ping tivo
PING tivo (10.0.0.144) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from tivo (10.0.0.144): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=2.08 ms
64 bytes from tivo (10.0.0.144): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.505 ms
^C

% ping6 printer
PING printer(printer) 56 data bytes
64 bytes from printer: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=1.09 ms
64 bytes from printer: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.370 ms
^C

I use a CentOS machine as my dhcp server. The same can be done on most
SOHO routers via the admin GUI.

--

rgds
Stephen
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