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Old 07-23-2012, 03:40 AM
Fernando Cassia
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

Who was the genius that decided that system-config-network-tui should
NOT be part of the base CentOS 6.3 install ??

Not to mention it has insane deps like wifi firmware packages... not
really if all you want to do is configure eth0 from the command
line...

FC
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:00 AM
Giles Coochey
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On 23/07/2012 04:40, Fernando Cassia wrote:

Who was the genius that decided that system-config-network-tui should
NOT be part of the base CentOS 6.3 install ??

Not to mention it has insane deps like wifi firmware packages... not
really if all you want to do is configure eth0 from the command
line...



/sbin/ifconfig eth0 w.x.y.z netmask v.v.v.0
/sbin/route add default gw a.b.c.d
echo nameserver e.f.g.h > /etc/resolv.conf
echo nameserver i.j.k.l >> /etc/resolv.conf


--
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:39 AM
Giles Coochey
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On 26/07/2012 12:34, Fernando Cassia wrote:

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:00 AM, Giles Coochey <giles@coochey.net> wrote:

echo nameserver e.f.g.h > /etc/resolv.conf
echo nameserver i.j.k.l >> /etc/resolv.conf

Yes I know BUT for that I have to THINK. Screens and input fields ie
type tab tab tab enter type tab tab tab enter are what is known as
"user friendly" since the MS-DOS 5.0 setup.exe onwards...


After having built a number of machines, I kind of rattle off that by
heart, just enough to then do a:


yum install system-config-network-tui after a minimal install.

But, yes, you're right, it was a minor annoyance.

--
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Old 07-26-2012, 02:50 PM
Scott Robbins
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:42:44AM -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
> > do not install servers if you are refuse to think
> > really!
>
> Why create GUI installers then?. Let's just package a tarball and let
> users unpack it manually.
>
> In fact, are you advocating for the removal of
> system-config-network-tui ? how about removal of all non-modal text
> editors like joe ? let's force everyone to "think" in 'vi'...

Unfortunately, according to folks who have more knowledge than I do
about these things, in later versions of Fedora, and therefore, probably
the next version or so of RH, just manually editing
sysconfig/network-scripts will overlook some necessary parts.
system-config-network-tui may wind up becoming necessary. Through RH
5.x it was enough to manually edit the necessary files.

However, in later versions of Fedora, this may cause errors because
there will be some other scripts or files elsewhere, that
system-config-network-tui manipulates. Meanwhile, Fedora is trying to
make NetworkManager the default interface handler, (and there is
apparently a command line version.)

I know I'm old and cranky, but to me, it just seems like those
meddlesome kids with their newfangled smartphones and touch screens are
taking over development, and that many of them just don't care about the
sysadmin portion of use.


--
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Old 07-26-2012, 02:58 PM
Giles Coochey
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On 26/07/2012 15:50, Scott Robbins wrote:
Unfortunately, according to folks who have more knowledge than I do
about these things, in later versions of Fedora, and therefore,
probably the next version or so of RH, just manually editing
sysconfig/network-scripts will overlook some necessary parts.
system-config-network-tui may wind up becoming necessary. Through RH
5.x it was enough to manually edit the necessary files. However, in
later versions of Fedora, this may cause errors because there will be
some other scripts or files elsewhere, that system-config-network-tui
manipulates. Meanwhile, Fedora is trying to make NetworkManager the
default interface handler, (and there is apparently a command line
version.) I know I'm old and cranky, but to me, it just seems like
those meddlesome kids with their newfangled smartphones and touch
screens are taking over development, and that many of them just don't
care about the sysadmin portion of use.
Interestingly, even when I use system-config-network-tui (at least on
CentOS 6.2) I still had to manually edit the ONBOOT network parameter in
/etc/sysconfig for my Ethernet to be enabled at startup.


Not sure if there is something in the menu system that would do that for
me...


--
Regards,

Giles Coochey, CCNA, CCNAS
NetSecSpec Ltd
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:30 PM
Giles Coochey
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On 26/07/2012 16:26, Fernando Cassia wrote:

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Stephen Harris <lists@spuddy.org> wrote:

Remember the "E" in RHEL. Es (in my place we have around 40,000 RHEL
installs) configure networking during the build phase. Our standard
install doesn't include this unnecessary component.

OK I'm a SOHO with a single server trying to setup a VM.
What you're saying is that RHEL/CentOS should not care about my needs
because there's a Good Reason(TM) for the way things currently are.



We won't have this problem with IPv6...

--
Regards,

Giles Coochey, CCNA, CCNAS
NetSecSpec Ltd
+44 (0) 7983 877438
http://www.coochey.net
http://www.netsecspec.co.uk
giles@coochey.net


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Old 07-26-2012, 03:39 PM
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

Fernando Cassia wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Les Mikesell <lesmikesell@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Even what most people call
>> insert 'mode' is a command that takes an optional repeat count: try
>> 20i -<escape> to get a dashed line.
>> Maybe being old enough to have used keyboards without arrows or
>> function keys helps, though...
>
> Sorry, I grew with DR-DOS and the Wordstar hotkeys. ie Ctrl-K-B
> Ctrl-K-K (mark text block). It's engraved in my brain cells.

Gag. I loathed Wordstar. The first word processor I ever voluntarily used,
and still prefer to Dirt, er, Word, was WordPerfect 5. That was
*useable*.*
>
> That's why I use Joe... or "pico" back in the days of Caldera OpenLinux
> 2.3...

<alt.religion.editors>
vi. emacs is a great (I suppose) windowing operating system masquerading
as a text editor.
</alt.religion.editors>

Wonder if I could configure the *best* text editor ever to run under wine:
brief.

mark

* My old criteria for evaluating a word processor: since the primary
function of a word processor is to replace a typewriter, if I couldn't sit
down and write and print out a letter inside of 5 min, then its interface
and bells & whistles have overwhelmed its primary function.

Btw, in ->'95<-, in a review of word processors, PC Mag noted that 90% of
the users, *then*, never used more than 10% of the capabilities, and of
the remaining 10%, they used some of them no more than 10% of the time.

But we need 100M+ word processors....

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Old 07-26-2012, 04:57 PM
Scott Robbins
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 04:56:44PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
>
> Am 26.07.2012 16:50, schrieb Scott Robbins:
> > Unfortunately, according to folks who have more knowledge than I do
> > about these things, in later versions of Fedora, and therefore, probably
> > the next version or so of RH, just manually editing
> > sysconfig/network-scripts will overlook some necessary parts.
> > system-config-network-tui may wind up becoming necessary. Through RH
> > 5.x it was enough to manually edit the necessary files.
>
> says who?
> 3.4.6-2.fc17.x86_64
>

A few people on Fedora forums. My own, very un-scientific evidence is
that once or twice, manually editing has given errors that I don't
believe were due to typos. After getting bitten once, now I just
quickly set up the network, download network-tui and fix it.

> network.service has the same config as 10 years ago
> there is nothing preventing you disable networkmanager
>
> [harry@rh:~]$ rpm -qa | grep system-config-network

Sorry if I was not clear on this. My point is that Fedora is trying to
make it the default and pushing people to use it rather than the more
traditional tools. At present, yes, it can still be disabled without
any special effort.



--
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Old 07-26-2012, 05:23 PM
Karanbir Singh
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On 07/26/2012 04:44 PM, Fernando Cassia wrote:
> I agree in principle. But my personal experience led me to have static
> routing on my home LAN.

And you chose not to setup networking at install time ? Had you done
that, you would not be in this situation.

A bare minimal install is targeted at people who know what they are
doing and will make decisions with that level of situational
comprehension backing them up.

If you really dont know what you are doing : install a more complete
system and the tools will be available.

--
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Old 07-26-2012, 05:27 PM
Karanbir Singh
 
Default system-config-network-tui not part of base install... wtf

On 07/26/2012 04:42 PM, Fernando Cassia wrote:
> My opinion after this experience is that it'd help for CentOS to
> include system-config-network-tui as part of the base install.

Can you be a bit more specific about what you mean by a 'base install' ?
Its not actually possible to get a minimalist @base only install without
kickstarting the installer instance - at which point you might as well
+<package> whatever you need.

Or perhaps you using the 'base' work more as a language thing to imply a
minimalistic environ ?

--
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